Thank you RRMODERATOR and others who have discussed the issues related to the ROC without getting too preachy. Although I managed to cling to my personal relationship with God I know from experience that if someone is still involved in a corrupt church or freshly out they are dealing with a strong mixture of emotions.

Dealing with the realization that you were unwittingly involved in a corrupt or cult group is painful, even if you, like myself, managed to remain free of the corruption yourself.

You see, a person who is experiencing the opening of their eyes will experience everything including: confusion, anger, anger at self, shame, embarrassment and depression. These emotions will swirl around for a really long time and be directed at self, at specific others, at the leadership, at the church as a whole and even possibly at the religion. It takes awhile to separate what was God and what was man in all of the person's experiences with the church. Yes, even God can work in a corrupt church.

However, this forum, thankfully, is for the process of discussing, opening one's eyes to the truth of what has been happening within the group and not to be 'preached at' even if it is meant with the sincerest of intentions.

Those of you who may never have exited a cult group such as Set Free (and I suspect The ROC) may not be aware that for a while, during that separation process the victim may become extremely adverse to hearing any 'preaching to' from anyone at all. It's a self-defense mechanism.

You see, part of the feelings one experiences is the shock that one was duped by a religious leader. A person may not feel like they can trust even their own instincts. I went through this process and it was painful. I felt like "I believed in Phil and all those other leaders. My every instinct, most of the time, felt like they were doing strictly God's business and were good at the core. Since my instincts were wrong there I have to fear that my own instincts are not working. Thus, how can I trust the next few people who come up to me proclaiming to be such loving, supportive Christians?"

Also, part of a cult's practices is to pick and choose scripture and use those select verses to drill in their agenda. So, a person in this process may, for a short time, rebel against anyone getting too 'in their face' with scriptures to prove points. I can promise that even if one goes through that, they may still survive with their own personal relationship with God.

So, I urge fellow believers who discuss these groups here to recall how overtly scripture riddled posts may affect people who are suffering and confused and dealing with corruption in a religious group.

Again, touching on the feelings they may be experiencing, a person may feel anger. So, they may react to 'preaching' by either striking out angrily or withdrawing completely from anything and anyone religious. I personally went through that for some time. I got instantly angry if anyone came off as 'preachy' or overtly Christian to me. In fact, Part of the fallback for me has been that to this day I refused to belong to any specific church and absolutely do not believe in organized religion. I prefer a personal relationship with God and share and pray and socialize with my family and friends. Fortunately for me, all of them know about my past experiences so they remain supportive, share and pray with me and for me but never ever push me or judge me or force me in any Christian path. Because of that and them I can maintain my spiritual faith. God knows this and keeps them all in my life.

Another of the feelings, experienced much later, is that of shame and embarrassment. I still only reveal the years I was so heavily involved with Set Free to only a tiny number of people in my life. It even took me until this year to openly talk (a little) with my family about my experiences and they KNEW me during those years, of course. Many of us who have gone through and come out of a cult/corrupt group feel embarrassment and shame. We may feel like we are stupid to have fallen for what later feels so OBVIOUSLY corrupt. We may look back and wonder at how blinded we were. We may wonder how easily we were convinced the group was good and doing great things and not at all corrupt at the core (the caveat is of course that not all people in any cult are corrupt, and of course some activities will always be helpful to others and good at the surface). We may wonder why we fell so easily for such a corrupt group and others don't. That, coupled with the fear that we can't even trust our instincts may mean that we become extra defensive and even reclusive after leaving such a group.

With this in my mind, and my memory, I speak to the few people who have been posting here about their own knowledge of The ROC. It is obvious to me that they have or are currently still involved with THE ROC and may be going through any part of that long and painful process.

I am no counselor but I have gone through it and know and remind myself to be careful and sensitive to their needs at such a confusing time.

Thanks to all who post. It is not only helpful for those who are currently or recently involved in cults/corrupt groups like The ROC and SET FREE it is also for those of us who have the longer-term issues and sensitivities from having been a part of such a group.

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rrmoderator
souzacircle:

Please don't offer sermons here about your beliefs.

It's against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

Please focus on ROC, which the subject of this thread.

All of this is untrue. We at The ROC know what there is to know and Pastor G hides nothing from the church. Next it is not our place to judge. A true christrian does not judge. I came across this site by pure accident and wish I had not because this site has portrayed Pastor G to be a bad person and that is not the case. I dont care who you are or how close you have been with him. First of all anything that he told to someone should stay with that person. Why go out and tell someone else's business true or not. Please dont think that I am condoning anything that has been told on this site because that is far from the truth. I have written a blog on my thoughts an opinions on the church, Pastor G, and everyone else that has been addressed in these blogs. I hope it will be posted so that you all will have at least correct information on issues that have been addresses.

Please take the time to go to church somewhere this week and learn about the word of God. None of us are perfect and anyone that thinks they are are not lying to anyone but themselves. Pastor G will tell you that he has done some things in the past not to be proud of. We all have the right thing to do is to forgive and move on. That is one of the problems in the world today. People are so eager to judge and hold things over their head and not let things go.

It is not necessary to come to The ROC for the word of God but it is necessary to go somewhere. Please do. If no one knows anything else they should know the ten commandments. They need to be practiced in more ways than one. Please believe that Pastor G has read these crazy blogs but I assure if he is preaching on a subject it has nothing to do with these blogs. He is teaching the word of God. He is not preaching to defendc himself, never has and never will.

I guess that everyone thinks that because he is a Preacher is is exempt from sin. He has never said that. Yes is he a preacher but please name one preacher to me that has never sinned. Even Billy Graham will tell you he has sinned and look at how he is looked up to. Please dont tell things you dont know to be true. Slander and defying someones character is not becoming and is lying and is a sin.

ylhall, here is some things to mull over...this is where your diety, Pastor G, will be eventually leading you. Pay attention to the wisdom of FreeAtLast.

[www.culteducation.com]

Maybe you should contact Pastor G himself and discuss your opinions with him. I am sure that he would set the record straight. You dont have any idea what your talking about to begin with.

Many of those who have left have tried to talk to him. We have listed the issues and he laughs in our face. You say we are judging and as christians we are not to do that. Read below an excerpt taken from a website
Just a few more seconds after Jesus said, "Judge not," He also instructed His followers to appraise spiritual leaders by their fruit. By so doing, they could determine if a leader is a wolf disguised as a sheep. This requires that Christ's followers judge spiritual leaders, and it seems that there isn't enough of that kind of judging going on because so many of us are being misled and devoured by wolves that appear to be sheep. Sincere believers are often afraid of judging spiritual leaders because they think that they shouldn't "pass judgment" on them or "touch God's anointed." They couldn't be more wrong. Jesus commands us to examine the fruit of spiritual leaders and make judgments about them!

We should be looking at the fruit of every spiritual leader in the church. Don't make the foolish error of "judging their fruit" by counting how many miracles they perform or by how many thousands of people attend their meetings. That is not the kind of fruit Jesus was saying we should be examining. Speaking of spiritual leaders, Jesus warned that many would say to Him, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy, cast out demons and perform miracles in Your name?," and He will say, "I never knew you" (see Matt. 7:22-23). Miracles are not the proof of God's endorsement of a minister. (According to Scripture, God may actually test our love for Him by means of false prophets who work miracles; see Deut. 13:1-4.) A big crowd may only be a sign of a big deceiver. The fruit of which Jesus spoke is the fruit of holiness (see Matt. 7:21, 23). Are spiritual leaders obeying Christ's commandments? That is the test.

We should also judge the teaching of spiritual leaders to make certain their teaching is the teaching of Christ (see 2 John 1:7-11). If it isn't, we are instructed by Scripture not to receive such people into our homes (which takes on additional meaning when you realize that the early church met primarily in homes), and not even to give such teachers a greeting (much less an offering). Otherwise, says John, we "participate in their evil deeds" (see 2 John 1:11).

It is sobering to realize that we bear part of the responsibility for the spiritual deception that is propagated by false teachers if we support them in any way. It is amazing to me how many Christians, whose hearts have been enlightened to fundamental and essential biblical truth, attend and support churches that promote a false gospel while leaving the "voices that are crying in the wilderness" to continue crying in the wilderness, unsupported. They are eating at Red Lobster and paying at Burger King. Some excuse themselves by saying, "I'm giving to the Lord and my heart is right, so it makes no difference where I give my money." The truth is, you are supporting the devil with God's money. And God is not likely to reward you for that!

Like John, Paul also instructed us to "beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision" (Phil. 3:2), and he, too, warned of false apostles (see 2 Cor. 11:13-15).

To obey these inspired instructions given by Paul and John requires that we make judgments about spiritual leaders and act on those judgments. Yet, again, it seems that too few in the church follow such biblical instructions. According to the consistent teaching of the New Testament, the outstanding characteristic of a false teacher is that his teaching downplays the necessity of holiness (see Matt. 7:15-23; Rom. 16:17-18; 2 Pet. 2:1-22; Jude 1:3-4). By that criteria, the church today has been inundated with false teachers.

In Scripture, some of the New Testament authors go so far as to name the very names of false spiritual leaders of whom the church should beware (see 1 Tim. 1:19-20; 2 Tim. 2:16-18; 4:10; 3 John 1:9). This required a judgment on the part of those authors. By exposing and warning the church of certain false teachers, something that is often today classed as "passing judgment" or as being "unloving," these authors actually showed their genuine love for Christ's body. Jesus commended the church in Ephesus for judging correctly certain men as being false apostles (see Rev. 2:2).
Excerpt taken from "Judge Not 2007 by David Servant and ShepherdServe.org


"I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one (1 Cor. 5:9-11).

ylhall, I am happy you are over your drug addiction/alcoholism/solicitation or whatever your problem was.

I am sure you are "saved" and "born again" probably for the first time in your life. The excitment of being a "newbie" in a religion or cult is something everyone on this website can attest to in their own lives at one time or another.

Contrary to your "horror" and "shock" at what you see as attacks on your beloved pastor, you are among more understanding and educated friends now than what sit beside you on Sunday in your church as they passs the collection plate (it is free here).

Perhaps now would be a great time to search around for some other "house of worship" before ROC becomes the inevitable Set Free that Geronimo's influential (and once again, arrested) father founded and Geronimo strives toward.

Please (PLEASE) read the following links and use it as armor to protect yourself when ROC becomes Set Free (once again).

[www.culteducation.com]

Also do a quick biblical search on tattoos. If you ever wondered why the Jews have no tattoos, it is part of the basic forbidden things in the Torah (your first five books of what you call the "old testament"). Then ask youself, why does this gonif who leads us have so many damned tattoos? Doesn't Jesus teach that the "Old testament" also applies? Did this pastor get any tattoos AFTER he was "saved"?

Very interesting...

First of all let me clarify one thing. I was not a drug addict, alcoholic, or prostitute. Making those allegations will get you in big trouble. I in fact grew up in the Church of Christ. I was baptized in 1984. I have made mistakes in the past and I am sure you have. I find your accusations of my life offensive and way way out of line. I did not come to The ROC with an addiction except for the love of Jesus. Maybe that is an addiction that you yourself should find and when you do gather a bunch of other people off of this site and take them to re-hab with you. Sounds like you all could use a good cleansing session.

What I will say about you is that you need help. You do not know me and have no business saying anything about me or my life. First of all it is none of your business. I have made many changes to my life for the good because of The ROC. Changes that I would probably not have made otherwise. So because of these changes I am going to forgive you for the stupid remarks you have made about me and let it roll off of my back like any good christian will do. That is because you know what, when you stand at the pearly gates one day you will have to make account for the stupidity that you display.

I chose to attend The ROC because that is a decison that I made. I was not forced, no one twisted my arm, or held a gun to my head to make me go. In fact my entire family goes and we all love it. So what you saying is just wait for the purple kool-aid.

It is not your place or anyone elses place to judge me or anyone else. It makes no difference where you go to church. You have to go where you thinkg it is right for you. So if you choose to go to a traditional church that is what you have choosen and that is good for you. It is not good for me and that is why I dont go there.

I found this site by pure accident. I was sad that I did because of the nasty, ignorant, and stupidity that has been portrayed about Pastor G and The ROC, but you know what, I am glad I did now because I have had the opportunity to defend the church that I love. So maybe now that everything is out in the open, I think I will ask Pastor G if we can have a different flavor of Kool-aid than purple. Maybe we could decide on Starbucks or something of that kind. Now doesnt that sound ridiculious?

And so what about his father. Who cares about that anyway. You all dont know the true story you werent there and who are you to question that anyway.

I have said what I have to say about my opinion on the blogs on this site. I will not be responding back to anymore responses because I am not wasting time on this ignorance when I could be doing something constructive. Oh by the way The ROC has a biblical study program. It is free of charge. Maybe you all could enroll in the program and find something constructive to do with your time and learn something about the bible, gossip, and living a godly life. Sound good. Go to www.theroc.com for more info. God Bless!!!!!!

To whom it may concern:

Please avoid personally attacking members of this message board, which is against the rules.

ylhall:

You have said repeatedly that you know where the money goes in ROC.

How is that?

Is there an annually published financial report that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds?

You also didn't define how Pastor G is accountable through the bylaws of the church.

Is there a democratically elected board that can fire him? If so, how often do members run for election and how are those elections held?

You seem disturbed about what people say at this message board about ROC, answering these questions would help everyone understand much better how the church is actually run.

Unless there is something to hide these questions should be simple for any regular member of ROC to answer.

ylhall

what concerns me, - is that you are giving to much credit to the ROC. You mean God changed your life, I'm sure.