Anyone out there got any tips on how i can get through to a Science of identity member to even read this forum and take it on board with an open mind.

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wanda
Anyone out there got any tips on how i can get through to a Science of identity member to even read this forum and take it on board with an open mind.

This may be a difficult task! If they are a very faithful follower of Chris Butler (Jagad Guru), they will not want to hear any criticism whatsoever of their guru as they believe he is the one and only representative of God on this planet.

You could just ask some simple non-offensive questions as to how come so many of the devotees have a history of broken marriages (including Siddha's very own wife), where the Vaisnava tradition is for fidelity of marriage???

You could ask why is siddha and his group so adamantly opposed to homosexuality that they spend most of their time, energy, money, etc engaged in politics to make some anti-homosexual legislation???

You could ask why are they spending more time engaging in politics than engaging in their spiritual life???

You could ask why do some of Siddha's most faithful followers go off to war in Iraq??? You could ask is this what Siddha advised or recommended, and does he himself support the war in Iraq???

You could ask why does siddha seem to be manifesting some paranoid ideation that seems to be way off the chart???

You could mention that there are a few of the old faithful followers who think that Chris Butler has undergone a transformation over the years and that we are now examining his political motives, and questioning how he has treated his followers in the past...

yes, these questions would make a good starting point to maybe get someone thinking...

good luck! Let us know of your progress!
:wink:

Thanks for reply.
Yes you are right they do defend what they are doing. I asked about Mike Gabbard and the reply i got from this member was they had never heard of him or his policies on homosexuals etc Maybe this is true or it is not something that B wanted to admit being involved with. I have been researching a little into the group and what has been written in this forum has been really on the ball. Secretive, Yes paranoid about germs, yes Meditating all the time Yes, Chanting Yes, home schooling Yes, that one was a good one apparently they home school so that their children wont be exposed to homosexuals, what the!!! I have to admit my daughter does study this topic about 4 hours a week at kinder, C'mon please what a naieve way to think. Very frustating for me as this person once was my best friend and has now turned to this. Is it really worth my effort for me try try and make B see this for maybe what it is? :? or can only she can save herself in the end. Is it such a bad way to exsist, are they hurting me or you believing in this stuff. I am totally against it but is it worth the crusade for this is what i have not worked out yet. Maybe someone out there could help me in this decision.

Hi Wanda,

If your friend is new to the group it is quite possible she has not heard of Mike Gabbard and his campaign in Honolulu.

All I can say is that 30+ years ago I was totally involved in believing in this religion and nobody could have convinced me otherwise. If this is the stage that your friend has reached, then there is probably little you can do to help her.

It may seem harmless at first, but it seems that as the years roll by, the paranoia sets in, and the negativity, which can be damaging to a person's relationships, especially family, friends, etc.,

... and they may even come to the point of seeing everyone who is not in their group as a "demon"

Keep us informed!

Hi Wanda :)

Why do you not want your friend to worship Sri Krishna?

My life has turned around since I found love for Krishna and am happier now than I have ever been in my entire life.

This is not a cult, at least not in the way I am reading other people talk.

All religions start off as cults. From humble beginnings.......

Humility being the appropriate word here.

When you say "Krishna" it depends upon what you specifically mean. That is what organization that includes such beliefs.

For example, the organization known as ISKCON has a deeply troubled history and has often been called a "cult."

See [www.culteducation.com]

For a better understanding and working definition concerning the description/designation of "destructive cult"...

See [www.culteducation.com]

It is important to seperate the religious belief from the leadership and/or organization that has created controversy or raised serious questions about its behavior.

Me too Jessica and a lot of other people's

Nothing wrong with worshipping Krishna, but Krishna is not Chris Butler.

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wanda
Anyone out there got any tips on how i can get through to a Science of identity member to even read this forum and take it on board with an open mind.

If you can't get your friend to read this forum, I suggest you commit to memory some of the stories and relate them to her. It will plant a seed. I know that coming into contact with people who knew Siddha in High School and when he was Sai helped to free me up. Also my family's relentless (but loving) questioning and friends who were passing me by professionally -- who were shocked at my stupidity -- all contributed to helping me get out. Also by being around positive, creative, and successful people eventually pulled me out too.

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Jessica
Hi Wanda :)

Why do you not want your friend to worship Sri Krishna?

My life has turned around since I found love for Krishna and am happier now than I have ever been in my entire life.

This is not a cult, at least not in the way I am reading other people talk.

All religions start off as cults. From humble beginnings.......

Humility being the appropriate word here.

Hi, Jessica, that is a well scary smiley face you have up there.

I was born to worship Chris Butler and Krishna, very involved all of my childhood. I imagine that the number of 10 year olds leaving this group is still relatively low.

As I got older, I naturally distanced myself from it all, it is what I wanted.
I always knew that the lifestyle of being a "devotee" could not co-exist with anything else, if we wanted to do anything cool, it always felt like it was a guilty indulgence.
The stuff on the outside always called to me, I was really attracted to lots of crazy music, listening to Nirvana, the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and the Violent Femmes when I was 12.
This amazing music was already pulling me from unconciousness, it was, to me, the most powerfull and beautifull thing. It was SO creative, so FREE. The energy, life, and honesty of these people really, really resonated with me.

I was also raised listening to and watching Chris Butler. I was born into this world and fed a truly destructive and filthy idea of things.
I would not wish it upon anybody, but there are thousands of people that were born in like me... most never stick their head out on their own to breathe a natural breath.
My brother is "on site" working for Chris Butler as I write this, he has never had any amount of time in his life not completely surrounded by Chris Butler fanatics, he is 25.

He has been COMPLETELY DROWNED IN IT since he was 12, marking his departure from my family. He was 12, I was 14 and we were shipped off to boarding school in the Phillipines.
I lasted 2 weeks, he stayed there for 3 or 4 years, since then he has always been at a Hare Krishna school, or for the last 7 years (maybee more) he has been "on site".
My pathetic parents could not possibly be more happy.

Krishna is not God, Krishna is a cartoon character. Our whole idea of god as some powerfull individual FOREIGN to us, or OUTSIDE of us has always been an idea created FOR us and given TO us by CONTROLLERS with a different understanding of things than the one they DESIGNED for the specific purpose of us
(a) Having a false understanding of things
(b) Blindly accepting the view
(c)Shutting down our own process of researching, questioning, thinking and discovering on our own.

Krishna is a creation of man, the details ascribed to his life were put there by the same stream of knowledge and secrecy that gave the same details to Jesus and about 15 savior gods before him.

[www.youtube.com]

watch the whole presentation here

[www.youtube.com]

These Deities, Savior gods like Krishna, Jesus, etc... Are created to mislead the general population, while they are a composite character based on ancient solar and astral worship/understanding.
These things are hidden through the entire story and appearance of the character in an encoded fashion, yet they are easy to see, especially in the context of comparing different deities, who all had their reign during different times and/or different locations.

Only now we have the knowledge and means to look at them all, something that had always been practically impossible up until very recent history.

So what is the point of creating these "Gods"? Simple... CONTROL.
All through ancient history (and earlier, i.e. "pre-history") there have been powers that seek to control the rest of us.

These powers are the Royalties and Religions, both of whom operate on exclusive authority from GOD.

They have always sought to sever us from our NATURAL connection to truth, ourselves, each other and "God". (this word is truly terrible, useless and misrepresentitive at this point.)

I stepped away from Chris Butler and out into the world as myself.
I completely faced my belief system (gaudiya vaishnavism) in myself when I was 20, I looked at it straight on, dropped it and walked away.

That one moment (which is all it took) was infinitely liberating, I knew at that point I had completely honored myself and my individuality.
My life has been my own since that time, this place is for us to be ourselves, to let go of what holds us back and release all the life, potential and energy that has been enslaved here for thousands of years.

It is truly one of the most amazing things anyone could be involved in.

All organized, authoritative religions are designed to be the polar opposite of true growth, true life, real spirituality.
Life, insight, creativity, love, these things all flow from within us into this world.
It is the purpose of Religion to invert the individual, create the opposite flow of energy and ultimately "plug up" this natural evolution.

It is so much better living on your own terms.
Life and reality, I am convinced, goes so much deeper, is so much vaster and far more amazing than any petrified concept sold to us by religion.
Far more amazing than the Monarch Krsna and ranks under his reign.

you jackin' it?