Pinklilies/Laura,

Sorry the link didn't go through correctly. James Randi, who is a former stage magician, says Sai Baba uses tricks most magicians know well:

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His followers claim that he can produce vibhuti (“holy ash”), gold rings, and even modern Seiko wristwatches for them by simply reaching into the air. There are claims that he has raised the dead, levitated, healed cancer, and even done his version of the loaves-and-fishes miracle. These are referred to as siddhis.
Examination of films and videotapes of Sai Baba's actual performances show them to be simple sleight of hand, exactly the same as the sort used by the other Indian jaduwallahs, or “street conjurors.” Sai Baba has never submitted to an examination of his abilities under controls, so his claims are totally unproven. Parsimony applies here.
India's leading debunker of the claims of the god-men who infest that country, the famous Premanand, has duplicated all of Sai Baba's tricks and tours the world demonstrating these feats.

Also many young men have come forward saying Sai Baba took advantage of them sexually. How's that for an "enlightened being"?

As far as Neale, he makes completely ridiculous claims, such as we are really meant to live physically for hundreds of years, if not forever. (If that were true wouldn't we have a very serious overpopulation problem, even worse than we do now?) He also believes grandparents should raise their grandchildren and not the parents. The parents need to be free to go out and get laid as much as possible And cheating on your boyfriend/girlfriend or spouse isn't as bad as cheating yourself out of as much sex as you can with many partners. That's the real cheating. (Neale seems to be quite sex-obsessed).
And his blaming-the-victim philosophy and moral nihilism are very disturbing.

His view on the holocaust and Hilter:

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Neale Donald Walsch
Spiritual Critiques
by Joseph Waligore

As far as I know, Walsch does not say we should be totally non-violent and never kill another creature. When he talks about Hitler, he even says, or seems to say, that killing another creature is not bad in any way.

God starts by saying that Hitler did nothing “wrong” and so is in heaven. (CW2, p. 55) Walsch then asks, “I still don’t understand how Hitler could have gone to heaven; how he could have been rewarded for what he did?” God responds: “First, understand that death is not an end, but a beginning; not a horror, but a joy. It is not a closing down, but an opening up. The happiest moment of your life will be the moment it ends. That’s because it doesn’t end but only goes on in ways so magnificent, so full of peace and wisdom and joy, as to make it difficult to describe and impossible for you to comprehend. So the first thing you have to understand – as I’ve already explained to you – is that Hitler didn’t hurt anyone. In a sense, he didn’t inflict suffering, he ended it.” (CW2, p. 56)

God makes it even clearer that Hitler did not harm the Jews. In fact, he says, or seems to be saying, that Hitler actually liberated the Jews. “The mistakes Hitler made did no harm or damage to those whose deaths he caused. Those souls were released from their earthly bondage like butterflies emerging from a cocoon. The people who were left behind mourn those deaths only because they do not know of the joy into which those souls entered. No one who has ever experienced death ever mourns the death of anyone.” (CW, p. 242)

After Walsch wrote the Conversations with God series of books, many people asked him questions about his worldview. One question was about the Hitler passages. He says this Hitler passage is the most challenging in all his books, and he himself struggles with it. (QA, p. 331) He wants to make it clear, though, he is not trivializing the Holocaust. (QA, p. 332) He says that some people say that my books “portray Jews as simply having been ‘liberated from their Earthly troubles’ by the Holocaust, and since return to the Creator is a joyful experience, there is nothing to complain about.” (QA, p. 333) He responds that no “reasonable interpretation of the material” could fairly portray him as thinking God condones killing human beings, or he brushes the Holocaust off as no consequence or of no importance. (QA, p. 334)

But I think Walsch does, or seems to do, something far worse: by saying that death is to be welcomed as we are going to a better place by being liberated from suffering on earth, and by saying that you cannot kill a mosquito (or any creature) unless it has chosen to be killed by you, Walsch is saying that the Jews killed in the Holocaust chose Hitler to kill them. Furthermore, the Jews killed in the Holocaust should be thankful to Hitler for liberating them from suffering on earth. It even seems, that according to his philosophy, Hitler was the greatest helper of the Jews in history as so many Jews chose him to liberate themselves from their horrible suffering on Earth.

His Humanity's Team has a something called The Group of 1000, an exclusive group who get the honor of giving Neale 10% of their income. A former member of The Group of 1000 said, "What did we get in return? A group phone call once a month from Walsch where we were made to listen to his goings on about keeping it up, keep it coming, and how Walsch was enjoying himself travelling and taking cruises."
www.ripoffreport.com/rescue-mission/neale-donald-walsch/neale-donald-walsch-humanity-s-5668f.htm

wow! thank you this is helping me to see it for what it is. i always got alarm bells even years back when i first read it and he was saying all these sex mad things,and i got creeped out because usually if a "leader" is sex mad or male (not all men im talking about these egotistical sex obsessed leaders being male and usually in it for sex) alot of the time he is after some sort of sex like neale or sai baba. I too am SO TIRED of people blaming themselves. REALITY IS REALITY. there are people out there that will do horrible things like rip people off and sexually abuse (like sai baba abused and neale ripped off) the point is,whether little old me existed or not,there will still be rapists and rip off artists. theres NOTHING enlightened in my opinion,for giving yourself guilt and self blame and making yourself solely respnosible for the awful actions for another. after all,if that was true doesnt the rapist count? doesnt he also attract everything to himself? so we all are attracting everything to ourselves yet none of us are really doing it. what a load of nonsense! fro what I can tell,neale has such a big ego HE WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD.
i dont like the way he self promotes either..his books say there is many ways to truth and the bible is bad because it claims to be the only way,yet he prmotoes his work as stuff like: THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WILL EVER HEAR FROM GOD. really?? isnt that what the bible did?
notice how HE never is to blame for anything? not even for ripping off candy chands work? (the plaigarizing) but WE are? hmm.. so is it now candys fault for attracting a plaigarizer?
NO! THE REALITY IS NEALE SAT DOWN AND CLEVERLY TOOK HER WORK.
no one else was responsible for this action except neale.
also I agree on that what you said..our bodies physically are certaintly not meant to live forever. it takes only basic science and common sense to work that out. our skin burns in the sun,we age,get weaker,we lose our teeth..whatever anyone believes we are definately not at any point where we are immortal. He also says a enlightened being wouldnt drink alchohol or poison themselves or do ANYTHING that will limit their life or cause harm..ok so then they wouldnt go out in the sun,they wouldnt give birth (ask any mother..that HURTS!!!) and sadly does change and can damage the body..ask any mother. we certaintly wouldnt be taking cruise ship rides..i mean what if we got sunburned or crashed? its all ridiculous. we have to be realistic and not balme ourselves and pick on ourselves for wanting to have a drink or for anyone hurting ourselves..IT IS NEVER OUR FAULT. I think thats the healthier option.
I agree that neale is sex mad..for example his god seems to justify men not being able to control themselves..isnt that saying that men are owed sex? and its very stereotypical..i know most men are more than their private parts and have a brain..maybe except Neale!
and like byron kate teaches,we cant have all these wonderful things if we are enlightened yet neale and BK can go on cruise holidays and keep peoples laptops?
why are THEY allowed to be so materialistic??
and why charge so much if money doesnt matter,BK,NealeDW and others?

Thanks penelope.. YOU STAR X X
please let me know if you find out more
id love to hear the truth about humanitys team..it kind of creeps me out so far!

also about the grandparents,how can they look after the kids when alot of elderly people get unwell and some need looking after? it isnt logical. it is basic common sense that we grow more tired and ill the older we get, and nature intended us to be young enough to look after our children,in my opinon. also I think thats awful..you look at every animal and the mother looks after her children/litter/whatver and I think that by saying you arent meant to look after your own is cheating a woman of her greatest gifts. I for one would love to bring up my own child. also some elderly people I know,are not as wise as me! not all older people are. some murder and kill. some are wiser some arent. he cant say they all are wiser and know better. plus i think neale wants an excuse to fuffill his sexual fantasys and sleep with alot of women,which is why he i mean sorry "god" said that we can sleep around. have you seen his young beautiful wife? isnt that materialistic? i thought looks didnt matter!
May I ask penelope what are your beliefs? because I am put off the fake new age yet I still feel I believe in something after life,just not this. how do I balance it?

L X

Laura,

There's a great book by Robert M. Price called Top Secret: The Truth Behind Today's Pop Mysticisms that goes into a lot of the hypocrisy in popular New Age ideas. He has a chapter on Neale Donald Walsch that's very insightful and funny. He says Neale's "puncturing religious pomposity turns out to be quite ironic, since eventually we are going to find that Walsch takes his yellowpad oracles as seriously as fundamentalists take the Bible and expects the reader to do so as well. Walsch, it seems, is flippant and irreverent to traditional deities, not so much to his own."

The idea that people attract criminals, or Neale's favorite saying, "there are no victims or villains," doesn't make sense at all. What about their free will? Do you or I have God-like powers over the behavior of others? Can people make me do mean or cruel things to them? Am I not responsible for how I treat others?

I went through a period of atheism after trying to deprogram myself from a lot of religious fear and guilt I grew up with, and after seeing so much hypocrisy and abuse by new age gurus. And the narcissism and group-think mentality it seems to bring out in people is scary. I think I needed to go through that to get where I am today. I have a healthy skepticism, but I do believe it's possible that there is life after death and I definitely believe in a spiritual dimension to our existence. But these experiences are highly personal and I don't believe you need an outside authority figure to define it for you. I think that's how I balance it personally, living in integrity and trusting my own instincts, but also using common sense and not being afraid to ask questions or think critically.

wow! what a great answer. I wish i could get out of it and think like u..i feel i already starting to now im discovering the truth. How do you do it? any tips would be great!
off to buy that book!
funny.. since i stopped believeing neales hype and stopped blaming myself for others behaviours I feel more like me more free! so thats the real truth.
Obviously I never would,but do you think if i abused neale he would blame himself? no way! lol

x

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pinklilies
wow! what a great answer. I wish i could get out of it and think like u..i feel i already starting to now im discovering the truth. How do you do it? any tips would be great!
off to buy that book!
funny.. since i stopped believeing neales hype and stopped blaming myself for others behaviours I feel more like me more free! so thats the real truth.
Obviously I never would,but do you think if i abused neale he would blame himself? no way! lol

x

It sounds like you're doing the right things to help yourself heal if you are going to therapy (that this material triggered you to need to deal with a therapist, also a big red flag there!) and getting away from Neale's hype and that you have stopped believing in his blame-the-victim nonsense.

No, you can bet if Neale was the victim of anything he'd take them to court faster than your head could spin and if he was sick he'd go to a hospital immediately and wouldn't even think to blame himself. He seems like a narcissicist of the worst degree. I was talking to a woman recently who used to belong to a similar group and she talked about how she injured her arm and how painful it was going through physical therapy. A friend in the group told her she could have healed it herself if she wanted to, and said it in a very rude, dismissive tone. Later this friend talked about going through something similar and the woman asked her if she could have healed herself and the friend just ignored her. So it's not just the leaders, a lot of their followers seem to be able to blame others for bad things but are completely hypocritical about it when it comes to taking the same advice.

I think it just takes some time, Laura. It took me a while too. And it sounds like you are getting there. You said you feel more like yourself and feel much freer. I think that's wonderful! To me the most spiritual things I do is spending time with my family and loved ones and friends, volunteering at a hospital helping the elderly, and just going out in nature and enjoying the beauty of the simple things in life.

If you're interested in ideas that there may be something after life, the best thing would be to read about what doctors and scientists have written about the subject. It's much more interesting to read a book by someone who doesn't claim to have all the answers or claims that he or she actually Knows What God Wants. If you come across anyone who makes claims like that, run the other way fast! lol

There are some books I've read that I could recommend. If you want to PM me I can give you a few. None are related to any group or philosphy or religion, but more data-oriented and science-based speculation.

I wish you well, Laura. You sound like many people who've been taken in by Walsch and Byron Katie and the like, someone with a big heart and a hunger for knowledge and a kind soul.

Penelope

hi penelope
thank you so much you are a star
i was one of those people,thank you for saying..and i am still in recovery but i am getting there
that hitler thing btw..i later found out that he was caught by new york times actually TEACHING THAT SAME HITLER THING a couple of years before
the book where he has a new conversation! but he said he "forgot" god spoke to him before! ??
hmmm..handy how he "forgets"
you were very kind to me and i hope one day the world knows that walsch is the fake he is
as he ruins lives and did mine for a long time
i stupidly believed it..did you ever believe any of that suff about we shouldnt have our own kids etc?
his new book the storm before the calm has typos and spelling errors!! he just wants money!

Laura

Hello there.

To be honest i wasn't much as interested in Walsch as what "God" had to say. It took a while but eventually with time the contradictions and faults in the text appeared to show that "God" was probably not writing this book! hahaha

One thing that i always noticed was how "God" would said there is no right or wrong and then later in the text "God" would say something was right or wrong.

Then there was something in the first book that said something like, "You will obey, there is no way you can't" which struck me.

If your hand was channelling the real God don't you think you would press God on some points, just for clarification? These books read more like a dialogue between comediens.

Then there is the whole sex is great thing! Masturbate, just be aware of the consequence, in case there are any!

I have to laugh at the law of attraction piece in these books. What it essentially says is, the way to attract things into your life is to do things! DOH! Instead of "wanting" something, reverse the process, do things and then you will magically get everything you fantasise about! This is how thoughts create reality you see.

A national and indeed, worldwide, bestselling book. I despair for the world.