Maybe people can shed some light on this for me: Because I was upset over learning that my Tibetan teacher taught the tantras and lied to me about it, and then went on forums to try to get the truth, I found myself being harassed by posters and then being banned and having my posts deleted. I learn that I am the bad one here. Am I? It seems to me that some of the Tibetan posters began lying as my teacher had, and it took buying books and reading them to get to the truth. And all because I didn't want to be in a religion that mixed sex with meditation.

Lately, I got this from someone trying to change my views when I said that now that I have learned that woman and children are being abused by lamas, I plan to expose the teachings so that people can be warned. So this person wrote me this from Buddha's teachings:

"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -- in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease.
"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -- in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease.

I was not abused; I was lied to, but others are being abused.

I am told that I am only trying to help others because I want revenge, and yet I told my ex teacher that I was really angry over his lying to me. But it seems to me that once I learned of abuse, I wanted to help others, but now I am told that I have to have a pure heart, come from compassion, and since I am angry I can't help. And yet I have not exposed the name of my ex teacher or his lineage, instead I have been exposing the tantric sexual teachings. I would think if I wanted revenge I could get it easily; this is hard work trying to help others.

And this is what else has been said: Again, you miss the point of what I have been saying... specifically that you are responding to the issue due to your anger, that you have a score to settle, and that this has nothing to do with compassionate activism, but going on a crusade..

How many have gone on a crusade because either they have been hurt or they know of others? And does it make a difference if you were or weren't?

You don't have to listen to these people who tell you how to think and feel. They have their own agenda to pursue and nothing is easier than telling others what is the right thing to do in a situation they have not experienced.

You are unlikely to convince, through argument, people who believe that the world will magically transform itself back into the Garden of Eden before the Fall if only we all became perfect people overnight. (perfect in whose eyes and opinion?)

I mean, how realistic is the notion of an overnight transformation to a world full of perfect people?

I am no spring chicken, but the more I learn about the world, the less I find I know--and the less I look for perfection anywhere. 'Good enough' will do for me.

Some people are heavily invested in the tantric practices, and view you as someone bent on spoiling their party. Others simply can't handle any kind of negativity and feel the need to preach.

What surprises me is how many people forget that Buddhism is about kindness and compassion, and are quick to attack anyone who raises issues relating to the harm that Buddhism has caused. The same would go for any religion, including Christianity, that purports to be based on the principle of treating others as we would like to be treated. People's denial mechanisms seem to be much stronger than their kindness reflex. How sad!

I've run into the same preaching and hostility you have, grainne, when posting on forums about lama abuse/clergy abuse. I expected a sincerely concerned response, but anger is more typical. It depends on the forum, but even non-Buddhist forums that are about truth-telling and exposing corruption get very defensive about any criticism of Tibetan Buddhism, especially, and trot out the "China sympathizer" line.

Being a truth-teller is a hard but honorable road to travel. Keep on keepin' on. :)

Stoic,

So true, but even with those who have been abused in religion, you can find them using Buddha's words to keep from helping others, or so it seems. I think the teachings of karma are very negative when used in this way. My own ex-teacher said that he doesn't expose his teachers who harmed him because he doesn't know whether he would be doing it out of compassion or anger. so i should not either.

anger in these religions seems to be a no-no unless someone is directing it at you. i never thought about that until just now. i am told that i should not be angry, that buddha said it was bad, and then the same person throws out anger to me, such as you know what happened to joan d' arc, et.

I quit posting on the Tibetan Buddhist forums as it is a waste of time; they get deleted. Thanks Misstyk.

What happened to Joan of Arc is that she was made a saint! haha! Somehow, I don't think that's what your detractor had in mind when he/she said that.... ; )

You could always go to the most basic available source and read what is recorded of the buddha's words for yourself. You could then try to figure out what was meant and decide if it is relevant to you.

I'm not much of a religious scholar but I do remember him being recorded as saying: to not accept anything he said as gospel, but to try it out yourself to see if it made sense to you.

If that applies to the head honcho's recorded words, I would think it applied even more to the 'chinese whispers' that are batted around the forums 3000 years later.

He also said 'light your own lamp, work out your own salvation with diligence.' I have taken that to mean: use the intelligence that you already have to figure stuff out for your own benefit.
Intelligence increases if you use it effectively and atrophies if you don't.
As always, YMMV.

double post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2011 03:52AM by Stoic.

you know what happened to joan d' arc

Before she got made a saint she was burnt at the stake as a witch.

That was a threat to make you be silent and to stop disagreeing.

We have not moved on much since poor old Joan got hers for speaking her mind, at least on the forum where that was said.

[en.wikipedia.org]

There was also, famously, a female pope in medieval times, until she was discovered. To this day, apparently, all popes have to be inspected on a chair with a hole in the seat before taking office. It is debateable how true this is, dating as it does from the 13th century, but it makes a good tale.

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2011 03:49AM by Stoic.

It's incredible, outrageous, really, that in the 21st Century someone would resort to the threat of witch-burning in order to silence someone! How little times have changed since the Middle Ages! And that threat came from a Buddhist? Someone dedicated (theoretically) to compassion and truth? But I guess that's nothhing unusual; one woman who has spoken out publicly many times about sexual violence and misconduct among lamas, Rinpoches, etc. said she received death threats from Tibetans after her newspaper interviews were published. I wonder what the Tibetan community will do when the Canadian TV documentary about Sogyal and lama abuse in Tibetan Buddhism is aired in the US and Europe? You'd think they'd want to press for reforms in order to solve the problem, rather than go around threatening people with death.

Here's a thought: with caller ID on our phones nowadays, is it possible to report phone threats to the police and get action?

In time you'll hopefully understand where I'm coming from in all of this, that compassionate activism and being a crusader are two different things, where the latter requires that you claim a mantle that is not your's to wear because you were not actually abused. It's okay to be compassionate and want to help see and end to abuse, but you need to get behind those who have been abused and follow their lead, not act like Joan of Arc and try to lead them into battle. Do you see the difference?
You do rememeber what happened to Joan of Arc, don't you? They burnt her at the stake
Dharmakara: Just keep in mind that her behavior is seen as a precursor to a mental disorder, saint or no saint.


These are his exact words. He is the owner of a Buddhist board, and it was in a PM. I copied all of the PMs. Thing is, some Buddhists known my real name, and my ex teacher knows where I live, but I doubt if he would give out my address and be a party to this. I think this poster means that they will burn me to the stake on forums if I post again.