critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 21, 2007 05:12PM
[www.jewsagainstzionism.com]
Anti-Semitism and Zionism
[www.jewsagainstzionism.com]
[www.jewsagainstzionism.com]
Benjamin Freedman speech in 1961:
[www.sweetliberty.org] (transcript)
[www.iamthewitness.com] (audio)
To be "fair" this is his wikipedia entry:
[en.wikipedia.org]
Founder of Zionism:
[en.wikipedia.org]
His own words:
I believe this is exactly what some people are saying as being some kind of conspiracy theory? As you can see Zionism is real and you can look up the facts yourself.
Is this considered anti-semitism? Can't someone be anti-zionist and not be anti-semitism also? Where does one draw the line?
Rabbis against the existence of Israel
[youtube.com]
Anti-Semitism and Zionism
[www.jewsagainstzionism.com]
[www.jewsagainstzionism.com]
Quote
ANTI-SEMITISM BY POLITICAL ZIONISM
Although Zionists and others dispute it, the undeniable fact is that revolutionary secular and apostate elements in the Jewish community in Europe contributed greatly to hostility towards Jews after World War I. This aroused hatred of Jews in general among many non-Jews.
Benjamin Freedman speech in 1961:
[www.sweetliberty.org] (transcript)
[www.iamthewitness.com] (audio)
To be "fair" this is his wikipedia entry:
[en.wikipedia.org]
Founder of Zionism:
[en.wikipedia.org]
His own words:
Quote
“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews.. . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-Semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-Semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-Semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)
I believe this is exactly what some people are saying as being some kind of conspiracy theory? As you can see Zionism is real and you can look up the facts yourself.
Is this considered anti-semitism? Can't someone be anti-zionist and not be anti-semitism also? Where does one draw the line?
Rabbis against the existence of Israel
[youtube.com]
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: August 22, 2007 03:02AM
Laughable. You are quoting from Neturai Karta, a group that is trotted out by Louis Farrakhan. You are one-note, and a jew-hater. Simpy disgusting.
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 22, 2007 09:15AM
[www.nkusa.org]
What exactly about this group? They are bunch of Orthodox Jews. Are they "jew-haters" too?
Here is another organization then:
[www.jewsnotzionists.org]
Why don't you respond to my previous post instead of just calling me names again?
Being against Israel is being against a political ideology promoted by Zionism. It's not much different from the neo-conservatives that are running the US government today. It's ok to criticize Bush administration or neo-con policies right?
Can you please elaborate why any of this is considered jew-hating?
What exactly about this group? They are bunch of Orthodox Jews. Are they "jew-haters" too?
Here is another organization then:
[www.jewsnotzionists.org]
Quote
Contrary to common perception, Jewish anti-Zionism is not restricted exclusively to the well know Jewish anti-Zionist movements such as Satmar and Neturei Karta.
There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate.
Why don't you respond to my previous post instead of just calling me names again?
Being against Israel is being against a political ideology promoted by Zionism. It's not much different from the neo-conservatives that are running the US government today. It's ok to criticize Bush administration or neo-con policies right?
Can you please elaborate why any of this is considered jew-hating?
Re: critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
Spiritual Filter
()
Date: June 27, 2012 03:39PM
In short answer about the Neturei Karta, they represent 0.00037% of Jews, based on an educated estimate. That's about 5,000 out of a population of about 13.5 million. When you combine that with the fact that only a hyper-fraction truly buy into the anti-Zionist extremism, you are talking about an even smaller group. Search hard enough, and with that percentage you'll find a lunatic fringe of any ethnicity or religion. I could explain more, but I think this is really explanation enough.
I'd just like to post about the reality of the topic posed. Does anti-Israel=anti-Semite? Theoretically, no. In practice, however, unfortunately yes. What's the proof? Well, for starters, you ask people this exact question. Here's the typical, programmed** response:
question: "Does being anti-Israel make you an anti-Semite?"
response: "No! I'm sick of hearing that."
further response: Foaming at the mouth, intensely accusatory diatribe about Zionist world dominance that is pretty much in line with the party-line of the Nazis and the current Iranian administration.
**why I say programmed: The person being asked the question many times is neither anti-Israel nor anti-Semitic. Yet, questions phrased in this light somehow bring forth a spewing from the gut that the person quickly retracts from when challenged about the basis of their claims.
There are a number of different questions or comments that bring forth this aforementioned spewing from the gut. Furthermore, for any accusations that do have a remote grain of validity, generally the government of the country that the person hails from is guilty of a far-worse version of the same thing. Not only that, but many times the more guilty the person's country is of the same claim they are leveling, the more passionate they are about it. This isn't always the case, but it's quite common.
Finally, the reasons that people present are almost never consistent with the actual history or policies of Israel. From someone who has logged at least a couple thousand hours researching this over the past 4 years, I can say that there are plenty of things somebody could legitimately raise as criticisms. However, only people that have objectively studied the history and policies of Israel are even aware of these.
So from the prospective of somebody that spends about 10 hours a week on this for solely education purposes, I can say that the typical anti-Israel rhetoric is heavily biased and bigoted. Look one tiny step further, and it's blatant anti-Semitism.
There are many reasons for this, and I don't want to digress too much to detract from the very basic point I am making. However, the fact that Israel's biggest enemies own about 1/3 of the world's oil is one reason. I also suspect that other reasons include the projection of the guilt of their own history onto an easy scapegoat. Combine that with traditional, ingrained anti-Semitism. Then combine it with intense European guilt over the Holocaust, mildly ameliorated by any evidence they get that the Jews are bad, too. Then combine it with a largely atheistic press that's resentful over the root of the world's major religions. Add to that the spice of the never-gets-old Jewish/Zionist conspiracy, and you've got a killer mix.
In short, one who espouses anti-Israel views may not in fact really be an anti-Semite, or even really anti-Israel. However, in the moment, they are usually both, and many times not even really conscious of it. But then again, you do get many vicious anti-Semites chiming on this topic, particularly on internet message boards.
I'd just like to post about the reality of the topic posed. Does anti-Israel=anti-Semite? Theoretically, no. In practice, however, unfortunately yes. What's the proof? Well, for starters, you ask people this exact question. Here's the typical, programmed** response:
question: "Does being anti-Israel make you an anti-Semite?"
response: "No! I'm sick of hearing that."
further response: Foaming at the mouth, intensely accusatory diatribe about Zionist world dominance that is pretty much in line with the party-line of the Nazis and the current Iranian administration.
**why I say programmed: The person being asked the question many times is neither anti-Israel nor anti-Semitic. Yet, questions phrased in this light somehow bring forth a spewing from the gut that the person quickly retracts from when challenged about the basis of their claims.
There are a number of different questions or comments that bring forth this aforementioned spewing from the gut. Furthermore, for any accusations that do have a remote grain of validity, generally the government of the country that the person hails from is guilty of a far-worse version of the same thing. Not only that, but many times the more guilty the person's country is of the same claim they are leveling, the more passionate they are about it. This isn't always the case, but it's quite common.
Finally, the reasons that people present are almost never consistent with the actual history or policies of Israel. From someone who has logged at least a couple thousand hours researching this over the past 4 years, I can say that there are plenty of things somebody could legitimately raise as criticisms. However, only people that have objectively studied the history and policies of Israel are even aware of these.
So from the prospective of somebody that spends about 10 hours a week on this for solely education purposes, I can say that the typical anti-Israel rhetoric is heavily biased and bigoted. Look one tiny step further, and it's blatant anti-Semitism.
There are many reasons for this, and I don't want to digress too much to detract from the very basic point I am making. However, the fact that Israel's biggest enemies own about 1/3 of the world's oil is one reason. I also suspect that other reasons include the projection of the guilt of their own history onto an easy scapegoat. Combine that with traditional, ingrained anti-Semitism. Then combine it with intense European guilt over the Holocaust, mildly ameliorated by any evidence they get that the Jews are bad, too. Then combine it with a largely atheistic press that's resentful over the root of the world's major religions. Add to that the spice of the never-gets-old Jewish/Zionist conspiracy, and you've got a killer mix.
In short, one who espouses anti-Israel views may not in fact really be an anti-Semite, or even really anti-Israel. However, in the moment, they are usually both, and many times not even really conscious of it. But then again, you do get many vicious anti-Semites chiming on this topic, particularly on internet message boards.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.