I would just like to add: I want to call it like it is! - Landmark "Education" Corporation IS EST.

50% OF Landmark/EST's pre-tax profits go to Werner Erhard, and in 2009 the "technology" will revert back to him. Erhard's brother, Harry Rosenbers is the current CEO, and his sister is listed as a director.

The fact of the matter is, Landmark is EST, and one has to ask: Why do the Leaders/Trainers continue to lie about this?

Well, I know why, but prospective recruits should ask why, and current brainwashed "volunteers" should be asking themselve this question as well.

I think there is a way to hold these shysters ethically and financially responsible, but I think too many people have been frightened off by threats of Lawsuits.

What we have to keep reminding people of is our constitutional right to not be cohersed, bullied, "done to", that is, we have to let Landmark(EST) and all other groups who use this technique that we are not going to take this crap anymore.

They went to far when they used my friend to try to hypnotize me. And that is what I am going to get them on. They took away my constitutional right to make an informed decision, just as they took away her constitutional right to freedom of thought. They brainwashed her without her consent, and she won't do anything about it, but I will.

Quote
rrmoderator
Do you think "brainwashing" is real or just imagined? Can someone be brainwashed or this used as an excuse to explain away mistakes and bad decisions? What is the difference between legitimate religious conversion and "cult brainwashing"? Where is the line between religious indoctrination or instruction and "brainwashing"?

Is brainwashing real? This is not your typical answer so read to the end of the post. Yes, brainwashing is real - but not from the "typical" suspects. Some people for reasons unbeknownst to me are desperately looking for other people to think for them and give up / cop out on taking the responsibility for thinking for themselves and actually swallow the BS dished out by whoever they’ve decided to relinquish their power to. - Be it "metal health" professionals, preachers or anything in between. (A Walter Mitty complex on steroids).

Some people are so weak they actually brainwash themselves into believing whatever stream of BS they bump into. They bring it on themselves. Best way to "deprogram" a devotee? Force 'em to think for themselves.

Where is the line between religious indoctrination or instruction and "brainwashing"? - Between yer ears.

I was brainwashed. My family was brainwashed. Brainwashing is real. Cult leaders who brainwash are premeditated in their actions and the actions are all based upon greed, control, and hateful intentions masterly disguised as love. They use tactics to instill fear within the victom. They separate families by threats of abandonment, ostricising those who find out they have been tricked and protest against the actions of the cult leader. Threatening family members that they should never talk to anyone that is going on or you will fall into eternal darkness. They call you a whore, they work you to the bone. Brainwashing is real in all sense of the word. If you are lucky enough to escape the God forsaken cult, you spend the rest of your life trying to deprogram what was jammed, pocked, peirced, forced upon you in a continuous twisted trickery of a evil discusting, ill, cult bitch. Hate is much different that love of a gathering of people who freely walked into a church on there own free will. Cult leaders are masters at lathering on the complement then pulling the rug out from under your feet and stabbing you with every sort of twisted critisism defaming your charactor, your personality, your original thought and expressions. Back and forth they go. Treating you like a huge frivolous experiment. Your stuck in a tiny petri dish being examined for every move you make. Every word you say. All must go through the cult leader in order for it to be of any worth. Judged through an evil persons mind.

Brainwashing is a slow calculated process that I have witnessed first had. I know when I lost my brothers. There souls were slowly crushed under the pressures of the brainwashing. It's real. They are gone out of my life the day I left that cult, never to see them again. I mourned for them. I felt that they had died. Brainwashing is real.

Dear Freedomfighter,
OMG......OMG....it's like I'm looking in a mirror! Me too..my precious baby brothers are gone...lost to me. Because of some brainwashing seditic freaks who think they are gods. They determine right or wrong. They are sociopaths. Right and good are those things which 'please them'. Bad and evil are those things which 'displease them'. And people you love go through the same hell you endured...being held down under the microscope of some sociopathic perverts who claim they are their god's 'chosen' vessel to determine right or wrong. Freaks....and they stole my brothers....
Wow....
Sounds like you are just as angry as me.
My prayers go out to you.
God bless,
Sallie

It happens. I used to think I could never fall victim to this, however after leaving my old church I was most embarrassed to realize that I'd partially succumbed to mind control, brain washing what ever word one wants to use


There would be moments of panic, when I would think that I was walking away from something totally amazing and of God, and then I'd come to my senses and wonder what the hell I was thinking.

I think brainwashing is real in many cults and even main-stream religions. I recently read something about Islam being an excellent example of brain-washing. You force the converts/believers to stop what they are doing and pray 5 times a day when they hear the Iman's call to prayer. It re-establishes their shackles of religion, pulling them back to kneel and pray toward a goal (Mecca).

This is why escape from Islam is so hard for many. It is a truly frightening main-stream religion (in my opinion).

Brainwashing is real. The perpetrator controls the subjects environment. They don't necessarily do it physically. Induced-paranoia is a common tool. Convincing the subject that they are potential victims of the ''non-group'' is a form of environmental control. Suddenly, ''out there'' is a dangerous environment. The subject has to retreat to the safety of the guru/group. If a leader can gets lots of children in his group he is in a good position to build his evil empire. Children instinctively depend upon adults to keep them safe. If the adults lie about the ''outside'' world then they are imposing upon the mind of the child and/or vulnerable adult. Why do you think these leaders and gurus want us to ''delve back into our past'' so they can fix things???? Because when we were young we DID depend on others to tell us about our environment. But these guru/leaders lie.
It is one thing to protect a 9 year old girl from an actual sex offender. That's normal.
It is a lie to tell teenagers that anyone who doesn't eat a certain way is of the ''others'' and looking to harm you. That's brainwashing.

And one more thing, it is that induced paranoia that causes victims to leave one cult and possibly join another. How does a person who was raised to fear everything ever get the courage to relate to the ''outside'' world. That temptation to ''run back to safety'' will linger. I think that's how come some people keep falling back into cults.

Check out Biderman's chart on coercion.

I like to call it FOGS. It occurs on the individual level as well as, I believe, on governmental levels. (Think about "code orange" during the 911 scare. What exactly were we supposed to do with that. Duck under our desk. Did anyone say what one should do to protect oneself? My guestion was, who was making money in the stock market with the Code Orange scare ?)

Induced fear, obligation, guilt and shame are steadily dealt by those trying to control you.
Your thinking is wrong, your feelings are wrong, your values are wrong, your behavior is wrong, your preferences are wrong, your friends are wrong, your objections are wrong, your anger is wrong, standing up for yourself is wrong, disagreeing is wrong, leaving is wrong.

It doesn't really answer your question on brainwashing. However, I can tell you that when you are raised from childhood that way and you are intentionallly isolated from outside social contact and the coercion comes from your "loving parent" you believe it.

DJ