Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: jaggedguru ()
Date: December 05, 2014 09:11AM

i feel sorry for the person who after had contributed to this site, went back into the cult because of family.
i cant imagine how anyone can do that, after all the facts presented on here.

i wanted to come onto here to give this thread a boost, i was seeing it sink below the others and felt disheartened that it was dying.
when i came onto here, it was a the top of the message boards once again, just like it has been the past few years.

followers still read and guard this site intently you say?

hey followers of Bulter, up to now you dont have a reasonable argument to present?
even after all that has been presented in front of you on this site?
you will still bow down to a weak godman, and surrender your life, family and time?
all for what?? something that cant be proven? bad deal.

wake up. its 2014. there is no such thing as a spiritual master.
you have been fooled. its time to end this insanity.
when your great (mis)leader dies, there will be nothing.
how enlightened do you have to feel?
how does being homophobic and being called an asshole help that in any way?

you all hate on the gays but you worship a bejeweled effeminate blue cowherd boy that looks like he wears makeup, with long hair and plays a flute.
think about that.

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Uncanny Ashram Events - Glowing Visuals, etc.
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 06, 2014 06:07AM

FYI, here are some items found while beachcombing
on the Internet.

Am posting a link, just in case.

People often believe that a guru has special powers
based on special experiences, termed 'siddhis'.


Hungry for Ecstasy: Trauma, the Brain, and the Influence of the Sixties

...Trauma, the Brain, and the Influence of the Sixties Sharon Klayman Farber. Cult-
Induced Ecstasy and Psychosis 159 She rarely thinks about it but finds herself
crying at ... Was it contagious? Many years later I learned that this is what is
known as the Isakower phenomena (Isakower 1992a, 1992b), the joint
participation of ...

People often give loyalty to groups or gurus
because they experience remarkable, uncanny

These experiences are quite vivid, even

So far, psychoanalysts have only been able to
learn of this by interviewing single clients.

Those readers who have been in ashram environments
or yoga groups in which disciples focus their attention
on a single point, such as a guru, or an image, enhance
this with all night vigils, trance like chant -- that
this might undermine distinction between waking state and
sleep and that possible Isakower phenomenon might be
shared, seem to focus on the guru, and lead people to
assume that the guru has special powers.

When this is merely a human phenomenon. If interpreted in
context of a guru centered environment, it seemingly
demonstrates the guru's power, when in the context
of psychoanalysis, it is merely a phenomenon to be
understood -- nothing to justify surrendering one's

Here is a search term:

Isakower Phenomenon.

Some earlier stuff, here:


When Otto Isakower first noted this, his clients reported
that these episodes tend to occur during onset of sleep -
hypnagogic states.

There is an outside chance that perhaps states of dissociation
induced by trance or trauma could also play a role.

Discussion on this continues.

Isakower refrences

Isakower phenomena were first noted as occurring just before onset of

States of trance might possible play a role.

Isakower also examined how evenly suspended attention
between an attuned analyst and client can result
in an exchange of unconscious material, even
uncanny shared perceptions.

An analyst or therapist will have the utmost difficulty
maintaining evenly suspended attention if he or she
is constricted by secret keeping, or feels either
superior to the client or angry or afraid of the client.

Possibly Isakower phenomena may occur frequently in
environments where persons share devotional practices,
especially when such pratices focus on the same image,
whether a picture of Mother Mary, a crucifix or
picture of a guru.

Ancient rituals such as the Hindu aarti, or certain kinds
of music might accelerate mind states conducive
to Isakower phenomenon.

Standing in the Spaces: Essays on Clinical Process Trauma and ...... similar to the trance and fuguelike states preceding major dissociative
episodes. The early literature on the Isakower phenomenon is suggestive in this

The Wandering Mind: Understanding Dissociation from Daydreams to ...hypnotic trance features: dissociation, 13; focal awareness, 12—13, 151; ... in
mental illness, 24—25 Isakower, Otto, 35, 152 Isakower phenomenon, 35, 96,
152; ...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2016 09:27AM by corboy.

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Hello, IRS, wake up and monitor the churches and non profits
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 06, 2014 09:25PM



IRS not enforcing rules on churches and politics
Politics Nov 3, 2012
By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- For the past three years, the Internal Revenue Service hasn't been investigating complaints of partisan political activity by churches, leaving religious groups who make direct or thinly veiled endorsements of political candidates unchallenged.

The IRS monitors religious and other nonprofits on everything from salaries to spending, and that oversight continues. However, Russell Renwicks, a manager in the IRS Mid-Atlantic region, recently said the agency had suspended audits of churches suspected of breaching federal restrictions on political activity. A 2009 federal court ruling required the IRS to clarify which high-ranking official could authorize audits over the tax code's political rules. The IRS has yet to do so.

Dean Patterson, an IRS spokesman in Washington, said Renwicks, who examines large tax-exempt groups, "misspoke." Patterson would not provide any specifics beyond saying that "the IRS continues to run a balanced program that follows up on potential noncompliance."

However, attorneys who specialize in tax law for religious groups, as well as advocacy groups who monitor the cases, say they know of no IRS inquiries in the past three years into claims of partisanship by houses of worship. IRS church audits are confidential, but usually become public as the targeted religious groups fight to maintain their nonprofit status.

"The impression created is that no one is minding the store," said Melissa Rogers, a legal scholar and director of the Center for Religion and Public Affairs at Wake Forest University Divinity School in North Carolina. "When there's an impression the IRS is not enforcing the restriction -- that seems to embolden some to cross the line."

The issue is closely watched by a cadre of attorneys and former IRS officials who specialize in tax-exempt law, along with watchdog groups on competing sides of the church-state debate.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which seeks strict limits on religious involvement in politics, and the Alliance Defending Freedom, which considers the regulations unconstitutional government intrusion, scour the political landscape for any potential cases. While Americans United gathers evidence it hopes will prompt an IRS investigation, the Alliance Defending Freedom jumps in to provide a defense. Neither group knows of any IRS contact with houses of worship over political activity since the 2009 federal ruling.

Nicholas Cafardi, a Duquesne University Law School professor and Roman Catholic canon lawyer who specializes in tax-exempt law, said he has heard of no IRS inquiries over churches and politics in the last three years. Neither has Marcus Owens, a Washington attorney who spent a decade as head of the IRS tax-exempt division and is now in private practice.

Owens, who was with the IRS through 2000, said the agency had once initiated between 20 and 30 inquiries each year concerning political activity by churches or pastors. He said he knows of only two recent cases the IRS pursued against houses of worship or pastors, and neither involved complaints over partisan activity.

"What the IRS is desperate to do is to avoid signaling to churches and pastors that there is no administrative oversight," Owens said. "The IRS has been vigilant with regard to civil fraud and criminal cases, but those aren't all that common." The tax code allows a wide range of political activity by houses of worship, including speaking out on social issues and organizing congregants to vote. But churches cannot endorse a candidate or engage in partisan advocacy. The presidential election has seen a series of statements by clergy that critics say amount to political endorsements. Religious leaders say they are speaking about public policies, not candidates, and have every right to do so.

The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association has recently taken out full-page ads in major newspapers, featuring a photo of renowned evangelist Billy Graham, urging Americans to vote along biblical principles. Graham met last month with Mitt Romney and pledged to do "all I can" to help the Republican presidential nominee.

In a survey last week by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 40 percent of black Protestants who attend worship services regularly said their clergy have discussed a specific candidate in church -- and the candidate in every instance was President Barack Obama.

This Sunday, Roman Catholic Bishop Daniel Jenky of Peoria, Ill., ordered all the priests in his diocese to read a statement urging Catholics to vote and stating that, "Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord."

In Texas, a pastor of a small independent church posted a sign on the front of the building that read, "Vote for the Mormon, not the Muslim." Romney is the first Mormon nominee for president by a major party. Opponents of Obama, who is Christian, have spread false rumors that he is Muslim.

Renwicks made his comments Oct. 18, at a Washington seminar on tax-exempt organizations presented by the American Law Institute-Continuing Legal Education. Responding to a moderator's question about the status of church audits, Renwicks said, "we're basically holding any potential church audits -- they're basically in abeyance.

"I haven't done a church audit in quite some time," said Renwicks, according to a recording of the talk provided by the American Law Institute. "There were one or two -- what I'd call somewhat, maybe potentially egregious cases -- where I thought maybe, we need to go out there, but even those were put in abeyance until we get the signature issue resolved."

An IRS reorganization in 1998 put responsibility for authorizing the audits in the hands of lower-ranking IRS officials. A Minnesota pastor, who faced an audit over his 2007 endorsement from the pulpit of Rep. Michele Bachmann, argued the IRS was violating its own rules. In 2009, a federal judge agreed, prompting a formal IRS rule-making process that continues today.

Dean Zerbe, a former senior counsel to the Senate Finance Committee who specializes in tax fraud and abuse, said the audits are "an extremely hellish area for the IRS to deal with."

The agency has to balance enforcement with churches' First Amendment rights. Even when the federal agency finds an outright violation, the penalty for houses of worship is usually little more than a warning. The IRS has revoked nonprofit status in just a handful of these cases since the rules for religious groups were adopted in 1954.

Last month, more than 1,500 pastors, organized by the Alliance Defending Freedom, endorsed a candidate from the pulpit and then sent a record of their statement to the IRS, hoping their challenge would eventually end up in court. The Alliance has organized the event, called "Pulpit Freedom Sunday," since 2008. The IRS has never contacted a pastor involved in the protest.

"I think people are misled to think the IRS wakes up every morning wanting to knock on the door of a church or synagogue," said Zerbe. "Most senators blanch at the idea of having an IRS agent in the pews listening to what's going on from the pulpit. ... I think the IRS in some ways reflects that similar discomfort."

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Old Man Prab's alleged two heart attacks at sea in 1963
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 08, 2014 10:30PM

This is the dude who inspired Butler, before B turned
his own franchise into an independant entity.

Two heart attacks at sea would have greatly reduced SP's cardiac
reserve. Had he actually had one if not two cardiac episodes, then
launched into the strenuous activities that characterized
his early career in New York, he would likely have gone into
heart failure, and soon become disabled, if not dead.

Or had he survived with blocked coronary arteries, he would have
had recurrent, severe anginal pains and needed to stop at intervals
and take nitroglycerin tablets for relief.

(Scowl) Corboy has spent a lot of time with persons with
arteriosclerotic heart disease. Two, even one alleged heart attack
at sea, and the chap walks off the boat with his luggage?

We should all be so healthy.

From an adulatory website on SP's life.

(Quote)"After experiencing sea-sickness from the Atlantic crossing, in rough seas, and in mid-Atlantic, and at the advanced age of 63 years of age A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami suffers two heart attacks. "If a third comes I will not survive!"

That night in a dream the Lord appeared to him in a boat full of many incarnations, and assured the dedicated mendicant that He will protect him.
Sri Krsna was very kind to Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, and he appreciated that. In his diary he wrote, "If the Atlantic would have shown its usual face, perhaps I would have died. But Lord Krishna has taken charge of the ship".

After a 35 day journey from Calcutta the Jaladuta docked at Commonwealth pier at 5:30 am., September 17th 1965., the ship docks in Boston, United States of America, stopping briefly before pushing on to New York City Harbour, for A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami a new journey had begun.

"Tuesday, January 15, 2013

(Quote)In the case of the founder of the Hare Krishna movement, his self-diagnosis of the “heart attack” he suffered on the Jaladuta (the ship that he took to travel to the U.S. with just a few dollars in his pocket) has become the stuff of legend. Trouble is, the extreme distress some travelers experience due to bad food and turbulence is often mistaken for a heart attack, but it is simply a severe case of acid reflux.

You simply do not suffer a heart attack at an advanced age and get up and walk off the ship with your little suitcase. It might be hard to digest, but it’s the truth.(Unquote)

This type of emotional appeal to decent people is a favorite tactic of con artists everywhere. The modus operandi is simplicity itself: pose as a representative of a recognized charity or religious order and pull the heart-strings of the target with stories of your selfless devotion to your noble cause and the poverty you have endured in its pursuit. (Unquote)

HARE KRISHNA CULT EXPOSEDApr 22, 2013 ... Like most cults, ISKCON is two-faced: it has a private side that it reveals to ... Our
guru had come to New York only the year before, so I became at that .... story
about how the food another family fed him gave him a heart attack, ... - 131k - Cached - Similar pages

Srila Prabhupada - Disappearance - ISKCON Desire Tree - Devotee ...Srila Prabhupada was born Abhay Charan De on September 1st 1896 in ... and
Bhaktivinoda Thakura to preach the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu all over the
world, ..... age of 63 years of age A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami suffers two heart
attacks. .... But news soon spread like fire in the Lower East Side of New York, the
time ... - 150k - Cached - Similar pages

International Society for Krishna Consciousness - Wikipedia, the free ...ISKCON was founded in 1966 in New York City by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada. Its core beliefs .... Some may fear attack of beliefs from both peers
and teachers. .... ISKCON has also been scrutinised by some anti-cult
movements. - 344k - Cached - Similar pages

Swami Prabhupada - Prem RawatSwami Prabhupada and the Hare Krishnas ... 35 days (he had two heart attacks
on the journey), and arrived in New York City .... This book is particularly valuable
in demonstrating how an idealistic believer can join a cult, and very quickly find ... - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

About Srila Prabhupada | Radhanath Swami - Official website of ...His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977) is widely
regarded as ... and the elderly spiritual teacher suffered two heart attacks aboard
ship. ... In New York he faced great hardships without money or a place to live. - 57k - Cached - Similar pages

ISKCON News: York

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Isn't it Ironic
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: December 10, 2014 08:23PM

Here is something ironic . . .

[a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.]

Tulsi Gabbard's Oahu community outreach liaison, Vandeth Sek, works for Sunlight Foundation. Vandeth leads "Talk Story" meetings with the community when Tulsi can not attend personally.

From their website:
"The Sunlight Foundation is a nonpartisan nonprofit that advocates for open government globally and uses technology to make government more accountable to all. We do so by creating tools, open data, policy recommendations, journalism and grant opportunities to dramatically expand access to vital government information to create accountability of our public officials..."

Sulight Foundation Mission Statement

Sunlight Staff Directory

They say the best way to hide something is in plain sight. Is Vandeth another Butler cult member?

I am not here to bash Tulsi or her record as a politician nor the fact that she was born into a cult. I actually admire some of her leadership. I only wish she would be more transparent about her connection with or disconnection from the Butler cult. She has so far been blind to why this is important and significant to voters. Her impact in Washington also affects the whole of the nation and not just Hawaii.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: December 10, 2014 08:35PM

jaggedguru Wrote:
jaggedguru wrote

i feel sorry for the person who after had contributed to this site, went back into the cult because of family.
i cant imagine how anyone can do that, after all the facts presented on here.

It is very simple. Most of the children growing up in cults never learn basic skills or have the emotional tools to live outside of the cult. Their ideas, lingo, vocabulary, and culture are so outside of the norm that it is hard to relate to others, especially if you have been taught to fear the "karmis" all your life. Going outside of the cult can be very lonely and difficult. Family bonds, no matter how dysfunctional, are formidable. Finding comfort in the familiar can palliate the pain of breaking free, especially when you are welcomed back into the group like the Prodigal Son after a rebellious sojourn.

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Isakower Phenomenon
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: December 10, 2014 09:41PM


People often believe that a guru has special powers based on special experiences, termed 'siddhis' ...
SEE: Hungry for Ecstasy: Trauma, the Brain, and the Influence of the Sixties

People often give loyalty to groups or gurus because they experience remarkable, uncanny experiences.

These experiences are quite vivid, even real.

... Those readers who have been in ashram environments or yoga groups in which disciples focus their attention on a single point, such as a guru, or an image, enhance this with all night vigils, trance like chant --
that this might undermine distinction between waking state and sleep and that possible Isakower phenomenon might be shared, seem to focus on the guru, and lead people to assume that the guru has special powers, When this is merely a human phenomenon. If interpreted in context of a guru centered environment, it seemingly demonstrates the guru's power, when in the context of psychoanalysis, it is merely a phenomenon to be understood -- nothing to justify surrendering
one's autonomy.

Here is a search term:

Isakower Phenomenon.

Great research corboy.
From the early days of Psychic Sleep to now, the Butler cult employs practices that can induce shared "spiritual" phenomena that would lead one to believe in Butler's so called "powers".

In my many interviews with exers, they all shared such experiences from dreams or visions of present and past gurus, characters from the scriptures, the different incarnations, to images seemingly produced by contact with the guru.

Exers were not able to break free from this cult until they saw "Siddha" for who he really was, instead of what they wanted him to be. I suggest that potential followers in the group do some deep research into hypnagogic states before totally surrendering to a stranger. Unfortunately all of ones ideals, money, youth, hopes and dreams get invested into these exotic new lives to the point of blindness...
and for years . . .

These mystical feelings and experiences should be observed with a healthy dose of skepticism and reason. They are a human phenomenon which changes form according to the milieu, culture, and environment; Chinese, Indian, Tibetan, Russian, Hawaiian; in Assisi,Jerusalem, Vrindavan, or Peru; Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Mayan, Alien or whatever is exotic. It should be observed phenomenologically and objectively. These experiences should never be the reason to abandon one's life and autonomy over to a teacher, leader, or guru.

It's important to understand how very easy it is to produce these states without drugs. Some charismatic individuals seem to have a gift for inducing this state. Politicians, entertainers, and gurus all have this in common. (Note all the fainting women during Obama's 2008 campaign.)

You could make up any mantra and couple it with beautiful and colorful images, music and physical exercises to induce similar "spiritual" states. The gentleman who made the film KUMARE proved this.

Don't give your life away so cheaply. Do the research. If you don't, you will get stuck, used, and bound by a fraud.

In the conversations I have had with followers who try to defend their choices, two things come up -
1) "Spiritual" Experiences and states of ecstasy - and -
2) Fear (fear of gurus "powers", fear of being shunned, fear of bad things happening to them if they leave the cult, or of dying a "spiritual death"). Both are red flags that should not be ignored.

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People project ideals onto almost anything
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 11, 2014 05:41AM

About a year or so ago, we got the first news of bones discovered under a
parking lot near the ruins of an English monastery where Richard III was
supposed to have been buried after he was killed at Bosworth Field in 1485.

A forensic anthropologist created a portrait based on the skull, equipped
the reconstructed portrait bust with a wig, a period hat, and skin coloring.

The result was haunting. Yet more interesting were the comments. I am
very sorry I cannot find this story.

But one girl wrote, that to her "He looks beautiful."

We human beings are made to hope, idealize and bond.

Farber's book, Hungry For Ecstasy is a new acquisition at a library. It was
total luck that no one had checked it out and I had time to sit down with it.

(Farber even has extensive sections on ecstasy in connection with body modification - tattooing, piercings, etc.)

Decades ago, a man who supervised a training program for chaplains
at a major hospital in Hawaii, told us, "In our program we met
a lot of people in crisis. They have fantasies that vacationing or
moving to the Islands will change their lives for better.

"Then they find the fantasy does not live up to the reality."

Or people let their guard down, surrounded by a beauty that

All this adds up to an exquisite vulnerability.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: AC4711 ()
Date: December 11, 2014 07:55AM

growing up in Butlers cult of deception it is true. We are taught the world we live in is bad, we are here because we were bad in a past life. We are not to make friends with people who are not in the cult. Mr. butler called public schools places where they grow sinners demons. Families took their kids out of public schools or never put them in them, the education of these children is the real crime. the majority of these kids don't date or find out about how relationships work they have arranged marriages . they are born and raised to be followers. the sadness is the followers keep this tradition going. uneducated, extremely poor social skills, no real structure. The parents in butlers cult are the ones to blame. they are so lost and have damaged their children so badly that they actually stay in the cult because of survival reasons. Most cult members cut their children off from direct family members (aunts uncles , grandma , grandpa) so these kids are now grown to depend on the cult and guru. it is a vicious cycle and they have no resources to get a different world view. We can pick on Tulsi all we want, she is an easy target.the parents of the gabbards, the parents of all these children should be held accountable, but can we do that? not in america. These kids are being raised like all other wacked out religions , but with less skills and the ones who come out of it are stronger and still suffer the strains and trauma of this type of upbringing. these parents (and many of them I know) are such crazy losers, we can post all we want online, and the cult and it's members will try to find out who we are...let them. we won't be there when they suffer the most trauma of their existence, when they discover their entire way of living and raising their kids was a cruel sad creation. But remember they don't listen to reason, they act out of emotion, not feelings. they are sick sick people. Sick in how the worship this absolute rascal Chris butler, they are sick in how they raise their kids. the question is ... what can we do? it will take funds. $$$$$ and a person willing to be chewed up and spit out by the media, a soul who will emerge in a few years I predict, the ones on the outside won't hurt the cult. but the insiders, we are the ones who see the devotees daily going to work or shop on Hamakua Drive. they have tried to root that hidden one out. They have tried. but you all will be exposed for the truth. it is ok to believe what you believe , but we must expose the destructive nature of your cult. similar to the catholic church? serious if you are going to say your know the way to god, you are going to have to stand tall like the Catholic get your lawyers ready, go chant on your beads, go eat your toe nails and hair. no harm will be there, but the light .. the light of truth. I know several of you from the cult reading this.we spoke about this site several times.. just this year...I chant with you, I dance with you, I bow down with you... I am building my case...Kailua is a small place to hide your face... we are out in the open,

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: December 11, 2014 03:01PM

Referring back to the recent postings on this thread about the cult’s status as a not for profit organization- does anyone know exactly what their tax status is? Just a brief cursory research indicates that this cult is absolutely FOR PROFIT of one person, Mr Butler. Here is the official definition of a 501 (c)(3):
Exemption Requirements - 501(c)(3) Organizations
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501( C )(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.”

Now, I ask you, after everything you have all read on these 475 pages what is the ONE thing that stands out for you? Butler wants to be in control and his ultimate dream is to control thru politics.
What a guru!
Wake up and smell the BS, folks!

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