There was an article by a woman who joined an offshoot group, I thought it was Vistar but I cant find the article in the list. She was a writer, married a guy from the group, full victim story, etc. Can anyone point me to the article? ETA: I found it.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

There was an article by a woman who joined an offshoot group, I thought it was Vistar but I cant find the article in the list. She was a writer, married a guy from the group, full victim story, etc. Can anyone point me to the article?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Okay, but for me the first question is why do people put themselves in the situation? There are no cults or abusive groups without victims. Reading various posts on this board can be quite heart breaking, people who have already suffered a negative experience costing them years will ask "is this group okay?" or similar. For me this is the question, why would anyone, particularly if th
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Andychee: Thanks.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

This forum is also about "therapy abuse". AA define alcoholism as a disease and aim at the alcoholic achieving sobriety, thereby AA qualifies as a system of therapy.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Colter: Intoxication and addiction are two quite different things.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Reserving AA for alcoholics would certainly be a step in the right direction, but have a look at the kind of convictions involved in court referals:
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Rrmoderator: I did not "bring up the word "cult" or "cult-like" and/or "thought reform" on this thread", the idea of AA being a cult was introduced by Upsidedownnewspaper, see post 6 on page 1. I have been responding to posts by Upsidedownnewspaper and Colter.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Fine, that discussion belongs on Tracey's thread.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

On the question of staying focused, I am replying to other people's posts.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

This has nothing to do with me liking AA or not, section 4 of Websters definition applies to AA, the rest of your article doesn't alter that fact.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Rrmoderator: According to those three requirements there are no cults once their leaders have died, Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult by those requirements, it is an incomplete definition. According to the Websters definitions posted by you and AA's own statement that alcoholism is a disease, AA is a cult, by definition, this is not a matter of my opinion, and in any case AA's sta
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Upsidedownnewspaper: A doorknob is something real and it's ability to stop people drinking can be tested, if doorknobs have a success rate greater than the control group, you have a viable therapeutic aid. If doorknobs are no more effective than broomsticks, or hypothetical entities, you have no case for an effect specifically caused by doorknobs, in other words, the effect is caused by the
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Upsidedownnewspaper: Drinking is a real activity, if there is something other than the drinker that can influence whether or not the drinker drinks, that something must also be real and demonstrable. Undemonstrable hypothetical entities "beyond ourselves" do not intercede in our drinking. To say "I stopped drinking with the help of my belief in God" can be true, in the case
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Upsidedownnewspaper: I'm not sure what you mean, are you suggesting that sobriety is a "higher power" to which the alcoholic must submit? From the psychological viewpoint, this doesn't strike me as a meaningful assertion.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Upsidedownnewspaper: You are still looking at this as a matter of language, whether the term used is "religious" or "philosophical" makes no difference to the actuality of what is being discussed.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

I dont think there's any serious question about AA's cult status. According to the definitions linked to on page 3 of this thread, a cult is "4. a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator". As AA define alcoholism as a disease, they are a cult on their own terms. All cults have both supporters and detractors, so there is nothing special abou
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Groups survive the death of their originator if their literature is sufficiently authoritative. How significant is the book to this group?
Forum: Hate Groups

Upsidedownnewspaper: Is it germane to "maintain that AA is not a destructive cult"? Considering the inquiry addressed by this thead, you may be crying before you're hurt. You should also bear in mind that on various threads members of the (alleged) cult, under discussion, have appeared and attempted to justify the organisation in question. So, if you intend to successfully challe
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Colter: You appear to be overlooking the fact that membership of AA is not a prerequisite of sobriety.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Upsidedownnewspaper: This isn't about language, it's about the underlying concepts. These are concepts which are group-specific, they are not general, and, as such, adoption of these concepts causes dependence on the organisation (AA) and reduces the member's integration in general society. The question is whether or not it is acceptable for the courts to offer Hobson's choice
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Rrmoderator: That's true, but my interest in the question had it's context, this was explained in the seventh post. Thanks for approving the earlier post.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Have a look at who started the thread, please. Do I take it that you have censored my reply to Colter?
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Rrmoderator: This thread is about people being legally bound to adopt specific views concerning things that are not part of common reality, that includes concepts of god. My posts do not say that god does not exist, please read again the message in the moderation queue, it is relevant, as a further explanation, in response to Colter's latest post.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Colter: This point has already been covered. God does not meet the requirements for admission to the class of real things, the possibility of an existence of something corresponding to a concept of god is irrelevant for the purposes of this classification. There is an unlimited number of things that can be conceived and thus have an existence in the imagination, that the non-existence of these
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Colter: Your post is too long, if it contains relevant points state them, briefly and simply.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Colter: Drinking and getting drunk are real activities, taking place in the real world, they are activities by which the drinker interacts with the rest of humanity. God is not a real thing existing in the real world, god is a personal collection of ideas existing only in the imagination of the individual. The reality, common to all humans and existing independently of all humans, does not depend
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Colter: Precisely. Those for whom god does or doesn't exist, in their personal realities, are being coerced, directly by AA and indirectly by the courts, to adopt a concept of god that has effects in the real world.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Barabara: Thanks for the research, I'll have a thorough read over the next few days.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Barabara: Human beings are social animals and as such need to be able to usefully and effectively communicate, in order to do so it is important that there is a common "reality" shared by all humans. By virtue of the nature of human perception and rationality, we can classify things as real or not according to whether they are known to exist or not, and according to whether they can be
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse