A Struggle Inside AA Recovering alcoholics say a Washington, D.C., group has hijacked the 12-step program's name. Jonathan Torgovnik for Newsweek Going Public: Ex-members of the Midtown AA group outside the major meeting place in Washington, D.C. Full article:[ []] By Nick Summers Newsweek May 7, 2007 issue - By the time May Clancy turned 15 years old, she was well on he
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

I just wanted to thank you Rick for providing this forum and ably navigating through the maze of points and counter points. I'm off to "trudge the road to happy destiny". So long old friends. :D Colter
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Quotevincefor colter: before you turn to scripture to defend AA maybe you should read this. Vince, Thank you for the link, I had read that before. I've been studying AA history throughout my 21 years of continuous sobriety (thanks to AA). AA is not Christianity. I've read books written by Christian AA members who try to dove tail AA with the institution of the Christian
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteandycheeColter, you claim to believe in the bible. I think that ne of the most important things it says is Judge not lest ye be judged. Its up to God to decide who is evil and who is not, by what our bible teaches, and the reason wh have orginal sin is because Adam and Eve decided they could say what was bad or good better than what God decided. If saying bad stuff happens in a means your
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Mr. Orange, The sheer volume of deceptive half truths posted on your web site, combined with the characteristic chip on your shoulder lead me to conclude from the outset that at present you are neither reachable nor teachable.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Orange man you did not answer my questions, * do you have a following and do you attempt to persuade people? (Anti AA activists point out the potential exploitation of vulnerable new members by the spiritually based organization of AA. The Orange Papers web site is clearly an unbalanced front against AA so how do you safeguard these same vulnerable people from your own bias?) * a
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Quoterrmoderatorvince: Whatever "floats your boat." A great deal of anti-AA posts and information has been approved and remains archived at this message board. Attempting to attack me personally won't advance your cause. Anyone referring to Wikipedia should note the disclaimer that Wikipedia posts regarding the content of that Web site. See Wikipedia says that it
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Quoteandychee"Frequent masterbation is a symtom of sex addiction?" Who gets to decide how much is too much, the room full of people or just your sponsor and why would any body want to talk to people they hardly know about stuff like that? If this is the kind of stuff AA wants you to think about and talk about all the time I'm glad i quit. I dont want to hear about it in a room f
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteandycheeQuoteThis is what colter wrote. "It's is very common for alcoholics to have sex problems such as lust, masturbation and marital infidelity. AA critics attempt to blame that on the AA program rather then hold the individuals responsible for their own behavior which they brought to AA. " I never heard that mastur------ was a sex problem. Maybe most religions say its
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteandycheeI don't see what the big deal is, and why you say we shouldn't talk about bad stuff that happens in AA just because you don't think its a cult. Mary Kay isnt a cult. Herbalife isnt a cult. I don't know about Primarica and quixitar, but are they cults? There are plenty of people telling about how the got used for sex or money and had their heads messed up by bei
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Orange man, * do you have a following and do you attempt to persuade people? * are you empowered by your campaign against AA? * how are you a superior authority about how alcoholics should find sobriety then the experience of AA? * do you practice faith in God of some sort? Colter
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteJames GCould it be the case that the lack of complaints might be because people go to AA as a last resort, usually after a major consequence and with that the level of respect afforded them is at a low? Their concerns will fall on deaf ears because as a result of the drinking they have no credibility? Other cults don't recruit people at their worst and that might explain why their antic
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Hi James G, I can perceive your friendly and mature demeanor regarding debate of the AA program. points of interest in response to your last post. * There are legitimate criticisms of trends and ideals within AA, I openly do it in AA meetings. All spiritual movements take on an evolution of their own, some for the better and some for the worce. Movements may liberalize or dilute original p
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteI have never made an anti-AA page, but I could see why some would, for example the lady that was told to 'find her part' in her own rape. Trust me, she is not the only one who was told she had part responsiblity in a crime like that against her body. It does not make her selfish nor immature. I agree with you, that's terrible and a topic which has no place in an AA meeting.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteThis seems to me to be a perversion of our Judeo-Christian heritage and very well puts AA in the category of a cult I'm a student of religious movements and well versed in everything recorded about the teachings of Jesus from the sermon on the mount to his last appearance with the apostles. As an FYI the people in AA that are working the program are doing what Jesus told us to do it&
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoterrmoderatorColter: Barabara was banned. I'm very sorry to here that. :( I hope I bump into her out in cyber land somewhere. Colter
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Where is my friend Barbara? :cry: Colter
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteJames GIn order to determine whether an organisation is a cult or a so-called support group, one of the most important things to consider are the barriers to exit. AA sells itself as a fellowship of men and women that help each other stay sober but that is not strictly true. Only one of the steps mentions alcohol, however 6 of them mention or refer to God. AA tells us that this can be a God
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteandycheeI quit drinking by faith but not in AA, and my church does'nt beleive in aliens ether. In AA they attack you if you don't beleive on God, and if you do they say you're wrong about God. I'll stick with the real Jesus, not some alien from another planet, thank you very much. I'm happy for you andychee. Stick close to him and perform his work well. He will n
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteYteepOne of the earlier threads, an author brought up the secular anti-cult revolt. I did some researching and I found that the passage quoted was taken from "The Urantia Book", a book for humans supposedly channeled from aliens! When I had first became aware of this subject, I thought that there were normal people who seriously believe secularism is a threat, but now I see th
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteughaibuColter: Intoxication and addiction are two quite different things. Oh I agree, but when a judge is looking at a defendant that has a history of DUI's, domestic violence, disorderly conduct and such then one can appreciate that the judge suspects that (maybe) the person has an addiction problem which underlies his behavieral issues. I know of numerous people who came to AA i
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteughaibuReserving AA for alcoholics would certainly be a step in the right direction, but have a look at the kind of convictions involved in court referals: I think that AA's in general would concur with that although "sour oranges" didn't mention if these sentences were the result of plea bargains between the prosecutor and defense attorneys. I'm assuming that
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Quotebarabaracolter: QuoteMy point is that many alcoholics have ADD but are undiagnosed. In AA they would lump it all with just being a drunk or the alcoholic personality. Yes!! That's what I've been trying to point out all along. Those I know suffered grave emotional distress in AA, often due to trying to apply the steps to problems like clinical depression, Manic-depression, hy
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuotebarabaraWell, those characteristics certainly cover nearly the full range of human emotions; Your point being? And how does that list relate to the subject of AA, alternatives, and the legality of court-ordered attendence at AA? You're going way off topic here. Well, there's a methode to my madness. That is a list from a test on ADD not alcoholism. I deliberatly left
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Defiantly a sweetheart :wink: , Alternative treatments are a good thing, even the anti AA groups. Whenever we can keep drunks off the roads that is a good thing. Consider the following personality traits: Past History History of not living up to potential in school or work (report cards with comments such as "not living up to potential") History of frequent behavior p
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuotekathQuoteColter I still maintain that the spiritual deformity within the addictive person supersedes and precedes the physiological phenomenon of craving. Well that sounds really nice. We will just have to agree to disagree but if these are AA's best arguments I can see that a lot of people would find it destructive to be called 'spritually deformed' etc. Love Kath
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteYes, and there are also a heck of a lot of ignorant. illiterate and under-endowed (intellectually speaking) people who can't stay sober, either! All are equal in AA and generally the intellectually self sufficient people have a more difficult time getting sober. QuoteSending people off to some cockamamie religious organization, especially against their will, to cure an imaginary
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoteFrom what I have seen, historically, the public usually takes a little while to catch up with academia. careful, a line like that could cause a person to loose their breakfast! I noticed an odd sort of thing when I first got sober. Their was a professor of psychology in AA in my area. He had written a number of books on the mind and enjoyed high regard around the country yet.......he
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

QuoterrmoderatorAn interesting book to read about this would be... Craving for Ecstasy : How Our Passions Become Addictions and What We Can Do About Them by Harvey Milkman, Stanley Sunderwirth See "The chemistry and psychology of addiction are described with considerable insight. These authors know their stuff, and they make a compelling case. . . .All in all, Craving for Ecstasy
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Colters opinion: Compulsive drinking is only a symptom of what is wrong with alcoholics. Any program which seeks to separate the alcoholic from personal responsibility for his or her behavior is doomed to fail or at best produce "dry drunks" who while technically aren't drinking exhibit all the personality traits of an active alcoholic. What is the truth? The truth is that
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse