QuoteMaxui I was interested to find out why when my experience was very positive others found it extremely damaging. There is no shortage of people who will defend pyramid schemes, multi-level-marketing, or network-marketing. Generally, these people have very, very flattering things to say about these sales structures. You are just another one. Quotethe other reason was to o
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteRswintersDuring the training that I went through in this last week on The Genesis Process. We covered Neurochemistry and how it affects brain by looking at some scientific data on brain chemistry. For me the part that stood out was the aspect of Serotonin and how it affects the brain chemistry and what emotions are affected by this chemical. I used to take Zoloft for about 5 years a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteThe ShadowHi elena, I disagree that it is only the "dimwits" who fall into the LGAT trap. My friend is far from being a dimwit. But she was introduced by someone she loved and trusted at a time when she was particularly vulnerable. I had been trying to persuade her to get some help for minor depression, but she would not take my advice to consider a short course of ch
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteThe ShadowLandmark (aka EST) is technically not a cult. However it IS cultish in the techniques it uses. It does not have one "guru" or leader that people follow, rather it has several. Just to add that all Landmark Forum "leaders" try their best to copy Werner Erhard as closely as they can in style, gesture, voice, delivery, script, etc., etc. They
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteMaxui Perhaps there should be a pre workshop 'test' to see if the participant is ready to face their demons and if not be deferred until they are? *shurg* anyway back tot he issue of "cult" after looking into this question I came up with an answer that "works for me" :) If, indeed this is a cult and it produces people (for the most part
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Werner Erhard didn't come up with the "headache cure." I think it was spotted as the "Filipino" headache cure in Adam Smith's book, "Powers of Mind," and it or something similar has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years. If it works, great. If it doesn't, try an aspirin. Erhard didn't "invent&quot
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Yes, It is great to see how many people who know little and care less about Landmark and other LGATS but still know they are related in obvious and bizarre ways to Jim Jones and his People's Temple. And how fortuitous that the metaphor is so personal, so physical, so "sticky," and so deadly. One would like to think that, unlike earlier times when otherwise decent, inte
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

...Always makes me think of ElRon's scientology "sailors" who, with no experience, could supposedly learn to man and navigate a ship using scientology "technology." After wandering around lost in the ocean for a few months and ending up in ports inhospitible to the kooky kult, ElRon had to hire a real capitan. The guy didn't know anything about or want anything to
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here's this, if you haven't already seen it:
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotejoe6 I suspect this is why lawyers don't take up any of these cases against Landmark abuse. Yes. It is evident that to many people the idea that they are in complete possession of their own minds, their own opinions, and their own decisions that to suggest otherwise throws them into a panic they can barely tolerate. It is like questioning someone's sanity to offer that they
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I put my 2 cents in over there a few times (':wink:') I presume you spotted them. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

No documentaries but Steven Pressman's book, "Outrageous Betrayal," and the old movie, "Semi-Tough," might be of interest to you. Did they include footage of that other piece of Werner Erhard garbage, "Today Is For the Championship?" And yes, there are fools from thirty years ago who still worship the guy. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteEnviro_CopYou know, I had heard of the white collar cults but didn’t realize this qualified (as I do now). My mother in law has recruited both of her daughters and her sister into this thing. I will admit I had some trust in my mother in law because she is completing her Ph.D. counseling from the University of North Texas! I wonder if UNT realizes they are essentially granting a professiona
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

...Otherwise known as sociopaths. Or users. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

LOLOL...sounds like scientology or The Secret. Geeeeze, I just hate them ~obstacles~ (engrams, rackets, cooties, negative thoughts, bad juju, etc., etc.) Discovery One D1 identifies the obstacles and experiences in your life that have prevented you from living a life that is REAL. Discovery Two D2 further develops the tools you need to get the positiv
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

There's a subset of customers attracted to Landmark for the exact reasons you've described above -- they like the idea of controlling and exploiting others and relish the prospect of squeezing more out of them. Think Werner Erhard and his exhausted and discouraged door-to-door sales teams. He designed est using the tricks and tactics he practiced on those foot-weary worker-bees. The who
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteEnviro_Cop My wife has just attended the Discovery training in Dallas. She is OBSESSED with the "group" and communication with others in the group she attended. If anyone has had loved ones in this group and have experienced a significant change in personality I need some insight to try and help her and our marriage. If this is the first time you've heard about or come in c
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuotedisconnectIs there any scientific data backing up these claims? Many of us have trouble believing pseudo-psychology like "Covert Persuasion" is effective without some kind of proof. Which claim? Please state the exact claim you want scientific data to back up. We're all familiar with Milgram, Festinger, and Zimbardo here. Are you? Also, Cialdini's "In
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I am convinced that these tactics work as well as they do is because those recommending the programs aren't paid. Lots of perfectly nice people who wouldn't dream of pushing some product on their friends and family don't think they are taking advantage of those who trust them because there's no money involved. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteughaibuOkay, but for me the first question is why do people put themselves in the situation? There are no cults or abusive groups without victims. Reading various posts on this board can be quite heart breaking, people who have already suffered a negative experience costing them years will ask "is this group okay?" or similar. For me this is the question, why would anyone, partic
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Sounds like they're taking their cues from the moldering old corpse of L. Ron Hubbard and his dictum about enslaving men by offering them total freedom. "The Freedom Plan is a business that combines mindset transformation with a financial business model that produces realization of true abundance." Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Check out the "rebuttals" by Landmark fans and employees. I suggest everybody add one of their own. Landmarkers must be afraid of this site: "While I work out of state, husband talked into Landmark forum Classes, paying top dollar to learn what is needed, to enrich his relationship with spouse, ME. Instead he is taught that it is quite alright to start new relationsh
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotequestion lady Here is a link to a site I use to translate web sites. The translation isn't great, but it gives one the general idea. Wheeee... More fun for me. Here's a round-trip through Italian of one of Lawrence Platt's "essays." (If you want to see what a thoroughly Landmark-destroyed mind looks like, check out his website. It's sad. He
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteohligerWe can go back and forth (and we have been) on church government structure and accountability. Both of us do have good points. In conclusion, Paul advised the church about having "vain" arguements while more important matters were left neglected. However, I am confused. By holding firm to your opinion of what church organization should be, you are basically taking a le
Forum: Destructive Churches

QuoteIdahoKat My take on "Course of Miracles" is that it is a course of nonsense, at best, and a course in brainwashing, at worst. My take on him is that he met this group at a vulnerable time and is under their (doubtful) direction/influence. He's great, with this large asterisk. Judging by the way you've phrased your poll, I'd say cut the guy loose. You
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteSteve989 The ex-wife called me this afternoon and told that because I was not going to help her, she was taking me back to court and get custody of my daughters. She also wants more alimony. I can't believe this. It was bad enough that she left the way she did; she gave me custody of the girls and said she wanted a new life without either of us. Guess it's just another chapte
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here's another couple from ol' ElRon: "Being At Cause." You can either be "at cause" or "at effect." Most people are "at effect" most of the time, meaning they are "victims" of circumstances, of misfortune, of their own incompetence, of their "reactive mind," of the environment, of biology, or of other people. If you lear
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hi rs, Scientology figures prominently in the trunk of the LGAT family tree. Though L. Ron Hubbard decided to convert his self-improvement "program" into a religion for tax purposes, most of his followers haven't felt the need. Still and all, they all shade variously into weird "spiritual" territory as ordinary self-improvement courses don't seem to carry the em
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Yes... Miss one minor connection, remove one little-used key, drop one almost invisible fiber and the whole thing is thrown off. A clock will eventually tell night when it is day and a ship will end up in Haiti rather than Florida. A (yellow) cake-walk war becomes an intergenerational disaster and a man loses his self-possession and ends up under a bridge. Makes you just cringe, and that sm
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Urban renewal, mental edge How a self-improvement course with a controversial past is helping transform Highland Park. by Desiree Cooper 2/11/98 Imagine an urban center featuring a spanking new, $45 million shopping mall drawing retail-starved shoppers from miles around. The shopping district is surrounded by upscale housing, and its main artery is clogged with commuters who have re
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"