You said: >>I'm fascinated by Guy's posts about hypnosis and trance techniques used in Landmark programs. I would love to hear more specifics about this and more general manipulations. I've noticed a fair number myself.>> Which other ones did you notice? There are 20 or 30 or so..... Have you not seen Dick Sutphen's piece?
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Guess your "cynicism" wasn't all that flexible, warranted, or accurate. (Was the old est rigidity its fatal flaw?) Perhaps this little exchange between a couple of Landmark enthusiasts in another newsgroup will resurrect some of it: From: billyxxxxxx Subject: Re: The SELP Commercial Newsgroups: alt.fan.landmark Date: 2003-11-19 10:36:15 PST I got through the SE
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I think it was Wolfy's "project" or assignment to take on the critics in a newsgroup. He ~disappeared~ pretty quickly when he found he couldn't win the arguments with his Landmark preformulated rebuttals. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Also Jan Groenveld's site. (Sadly, she has died, but there are others keeping up the site.) Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What's the scientific concept about the logical existance of something meaning it probably does? What better "hunting grounds" for those predatory salesmen than the grandiose and fragile egos of Landmark, as those prone to mood disorders are propelled into a Landmark induced mania? Sickening, but logical. Just so much fleecing of the flock. There needs to be a follow-up
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

The subtitle of a book written in the 1970s about these groups is, "America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change." (The title is "Snapping.") The authors, Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman, give specific references to est, the precursor to Landmark, which are, I believe, removed from subsequent editions of the book. The "Advanced Course" is probably where the h
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hi Elisita, Yup, it's the same old copy-cat, cloned spin-off of something similar to Landmark or Lifespring dressed up in new garb but not that much different from the 1960s and 70s Moonies, Hare Krishna, Children of God, or Scientologists. (The drumming or chanting are probably part of a hypnotic induction.) These people are so pathetic it's laughable. They don't even hav
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here's a thread from FACTnet, if you haven't already seen it. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

If memory serves, and without rereading the old posts, Wolfy is from London. Ever go over the pond? I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the US Landmarkers were expaining to the UK people how to ~recreate~ or adapt the Forum/est for their constituents. It must have been hilarious. I'm laughing just thinking about it. Also scratching my head trying to figure out
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Guy, Iz dat you, darlin'? Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Lots of information about different, (they're all pretty much the same), "large groups awareness trainings." One thing that seems to distinguish these scammers is their lack of imagination. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Demand your money back as soon as possible. They will not relent easily. It will probably take some persistance on your part. They will use the fact that you are polite, well-meaning, accomodating, and decent against you. Do not let them bully you. The Legacy Center is the new name for what used to be Lifespring. They are known for ruthless and aggressive behavior towards anyone they can in
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

LOL.... Tell her/them you "choose" to have a Landmark-free wedding. Tell her/them you "choose" no "enrollment conversations," jargon, "coaching," or "junior Forum leaders" on your special day. Tell her your friendship is not an "enrollment possibility" for a commercial enterprise. Tell her/them you have found out through re
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hi Adrienne, Tough Luck! You might liken it to having your best friend "relapse" into alcoholism or drug abuse. Landmark works in a similar fashion on some people. She sounds as though she is in the middle of the indoctrination when emotions are their highest and normal functioning is compromised. Landmark can be very seductive to the weak or uninformed. She will be flooded wi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What you've described is referred to as "sell by zealot" in the cults. Among other things, Landmark is salesmen's training. Lots of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" stuff, mixed in with the scientology, Mind Dynamics, cognitive therapy, hypnosis, "personal growth" content, and anything else they have "borrowed" over the years. But ther
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

One can't say Landmark don't know their customers. There seem to be so many like you, wolfy, who will swallow the "curiculum" whole, abandon critical thought, ignore evidence, cover their eyes and ears, and repeat the same claptrap ad nauseum in the hopes that some unsuspecting fool will believe it and attend the introductory meeting and so that they can protect their own ego
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>I am not an employee of Landmark. No one has put me up to voicing my views. I'm freely expressing my own opinions - which I make no claim to be the ultimate and final truth - I am just sharing with people what I got out of particpating in Landmark.>> Oh but you *ARE* the perfect Landmark "employee;" one who works for free spreading the good word a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>you could probably call me a lot of things - but brainwashed and a liar? Nah.>>> No one's calling you a liar, wolfy. That's the problem. Most likely, you honestly "believe" the garbage you've been fed. If you were "lying" you probably wouldn't waste your time posting here among the skeptics and instead spend y
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Corboy observes: >>Its just like a pickpocket smootching/snogging you, getting you all horny and, while you are unaware of it, slipping your wallet out of your back pocket.>> LOL...Too true! Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Wolfy queries: >>And the proof that God exists is....>> Define "God." (*Your* terms, not the dictionary's) Then define "Exists." (*Your* terms, not the dictionary's) Then define "Proof." (*Your* terms, not the dictionary's) Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What you've described in your post about growing up is an ordinary situation most people are able to put in perspective without psychotherapy. Lots aren't or don't, however, or the "pressure" is more severe, or there are other circumstances, and they get into some kind of trouble. They can do lots of things, including traditional counselling or therapy. Landmark loves
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

They use the word "process" and in the "danger process" or the "fear process," or whatever they are calling it now, instead of calling it a hypnotic induction. It's another weird bit of "technology" Werner picked up from scientology. Both L. Ron Hubbard and Werner Erhard were master hypnotists. Ellen (Many people are not hypnotizable.)
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

There is no "meaningful" Landmark "dialog." It's not a dialog. I'ts an "enrollment conversation." Remember? Either enrolling people into Landmark or enrolling them into making *YOUR* life "amazing" by manipulating them to your benefit. No, how we are "being" now is not how we are "being" in the rest of our lives, no matt
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

You have used so many jargony words and concepts here that to some of us in the cult-watching business your post looks as though it were lifted right from the est/LEC "reply to critics" handbook. I'm surprised you haven't accused me of being "negative and cynical." What Landmark offers is a poor imitation and cheap cult-subsitute for basic psychotherapy with so
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>>...Did my life change through Landmark? Yes! Life also changed my life - a life threatening neurological condition, a life threatening bowel disease, my cancer, my family, my marriage, my friends and the birth of my daughter. Oh! and anybody I care to listen to - you never know they may change your way of thinking.>>> In the early days, and now on
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hi Hope, Here's an old list. There are probably lots more. New ones springing up every day, seems like. Are the "Promise Keepers" still extant? This one sounds similar. Usually the hidden agenda isn't that well hidden. Ellen LGATs Large Group Awareness Trainings Context Associates est/Landmark Forum Garden Company
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Might save yourself a few bucks. Check Sarlo's 1st prize! LOL Ellen
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

>>They are using powerful techniques derived from social psychology and trance work without any accountability to the codes of ethics that govern the work of research psychologists and mental health professionals.>> The way Landmark sidestep this is to claim that they do not offer psychotherapy, psychological counseling, or any therapeutic type of service. They c
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Though it is out of print, you can get a copy of "Outrageous Betrayal" from a used book dealer for around $10.00 or so. Her husband should read this and you, as well, if you haven't already. Educate yourself before you try to talk with her any further. This is a very insidious group and if she's been involved with them for two years, she is probably "locked-in."
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Although Landmark, like their "spiritual" predecesors, the scientologists, are pretty aggressive about going after anyone who might harm their reputation or bottom line. You sort of have to operate under the radar, but their are public critics and anti-cult activists who were involved with Landmark. Check Carol Giambalvo's site, if you haven't already. I posted her essay,
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"