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16 years ago
midonov123
Quotesonnie_dee I am surprised she said that, when I was training to be an introduction leader we were always told the "real" reason was because people wanted to do the course with out taking to much out of their life. I was surprised to. A few months ago, she said exactly what you say above - that it's because that's waht people want or something like that. Now she&#
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Quotesonnie_deeIt would be so interesting to hear how they train their recruits now to answer peoples questions about whether Landmark is a cult. When training to be an introduction leader we had to learn how to answer that question using the back up of some group or something that had said Landmark was in no way a cult. I wonder what they say now when someone says "well in france"
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
I asked my Introduction Leader and Seminar Leader wannabe ex-girlfriend (yes she is now officially my ex- for those who read my other posts) why Landmark is concentrated over 3 days fro, 9 am to midnight sitting on uncomfortable chairs in an uncomfortable room etc... that results in physical discomfort and sleep deprivation. She answered very simply “because their defenses collapse” !!! Thi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
QuoteToniI have read that Landmark is outlawed in France, Scientology outlawed in Germany. I never read that landmark is actually "outlawed" in France. It is listed as a cult on the 1995 National Assembly report, but it's not outlawed. I think the office in Paris is still in operation. However, their activities are probably closely monitored by the French authorities since t
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
I would welcome the comments of a professional psychiatrist. What follows is merely an opinion from a non-professional, but I’ve been thinking about it for a while. Actually, this “brainwashed” state of mind reminds me of a “psychotic” state. I have a family member who is psychotic and she suffers from serious delusions for which she has been hospitalized many times. I have read a lot abo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
For France, you will find everything in the report from the National Assembly on cults at this address (in english): Information on the About-Picard anti-cult law can be found here: This anti-cult law is a world premier, and the key word is "sujétion psychologique" which translate to "psychological subjection" I don't know about other countries.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
QuoteJoolsI’m still in two minds as to whether I should go despite the fact that my sister who is a highly qualified psychologist claims LMF are a bunch of amateurs playing a very dangerous game, This is exactly the weakness they will try to exploit in you, conciously or not. You should trust your sister and your inner feelings that tell you something is not right. Don't test yourself in
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
This is an excerpt from a letter my Landmarkian friend wrote to me after I criticized her participation in Landmark. It goes like this : ------------------------------------ "Maybe Landmark is a cult, maybe it has manipulated my mind and if it is/has, all I see are great results in my life. ... The only thing I’ve failed in was my awkward attempts to share what I’ve gotten from Landmark
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Hi, This is an excerpt from my girlfriend letter trying to get complete with me 3 weeks ago. Some of the material is quite amazing, especially her argument that I have “brainwashed myself” into knowing LEC is bad ! This is how her letter goes. I’ve added some exclamation and question marks (!!?) where it strikes me the most. --------------------------------------- - “I know what I k
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Something bizarre happened yesterday. I told my Landmarkian girlfriend over the phone that I was reading "Cults in our Midst" by Margaret Singer. She ask who is she ? I said Margaret Singer was a professor emeritus of psychlogy and an expert on cults. I also mentioned that she got sued by Landmark after the publication of the first edition of her book. She litterally flipped. She
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
QuoteULTAWAREMD, Thank you for your legal logic...but what area of American law do you have exoertise but 1st-most, are you a LEC grad? Ultraware, I am Canadian, and I don't know the US law. I know from my own experience that I cannot file a complaint in Quebec against any third party (e.g. health practitioner, psychologist, psychiatrist, psychotherapist, guru, etc ...) unless I am
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
I have decided to stop arguing about LEC with my girlfriend because I know she will never want to listen to any of the facts she calls my “interpretation”. I’ve decided to wait until she pops out of it by herself (it seems to be the only way, isn’t it?). But here are two quotations from my girlfriend after we’ve been fighting about LEC lately as reported in my previous posts: She said,
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
I forgot to mention that one. That story is about a "psychotherapist" who got her training from Landmark Education and she started her own series of seminars in Montreal (very similar to what you describe above). She was selling something similar to the LEC doctrine under another name (centre Plein Potentiel en Action) and offering "diplomas" to people to become a coach lik
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
I don't know about the legislation in other countries, states or provinces, but in Quebec where I live, it's perfectly legal. Anybody can declare himself/herself a psychotherapist, and open a consulting office. A a private practitionner, you can propose any type of cure to your patient, from esoterism to plain nothing. There was a report on TV last year, and if you can read french, y
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
QuoteAiohI flat out told my mom there that this was sophism and I would have no part in it (this was of course, after she told me she is going to give 60000$ to IBI, an affiliate to LEC) ...:\ What exactly is IBI (Is it IBI Global ?) and how do you know it is affiliated with LEC. I looked for information about possible links but I could'nt find any. Michael D.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Aioh, Hang in there!!! I know this must be very difficult. About Sophism, I think I have identified the fundamental sophism in LEC. It's all about running "rackets". According to LEC definition: A "racket" is a persistent complaint coupled with a fixed way of being ... The person running the racket: 1) makes himself or herself right or makes others wrong, 2) do
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Aioh, I feel very sorry for you and all those who are in a similar situation. I really like your comment about sophism. I think you are absolutely right that this is what they are using, and this is what Plato and Socrates among others have been fighting against all their life. What is infuriating is that in the Harvard Business report, there is a quote from Steve Zaffron, LEC's vice p
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Is it true that all the money collected by LEC worldwide is re-invested in the Company and that no employees has more than 2 or 3% of the stocks? I hear that most LECs' office have about 4-5 staff members and are paid minimum wage. A simple estimate of the profit they make vs costs of operations tells me there must be large sums of money moving somewhere. Any information about that?
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Quotehype2120my landmarkian roommate has asked me to committ to the following: 1. schedule a day when i clean the house for four hours AND make sure i give her ample notice so that she can "enjoy" the clean living space. i don't have a problem with cleaning the house -- but i am not going to schedule a date and time to do it. next request... 2. schedule a weekly evening
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Aioh, My first advice is DON’T GO to the Forum. Find any excuses, say you have some other plans, that you are too tired to be in a room from 9am to 12pm 3 days in a row, etc... but don’t go (your mother can get a refund). This will bring up a lot of tension perhaps between you and your mother, and it’s a first sign that something is wrong. This tension is what Landmark creates between those
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Quotesonnie_deeAs far as Landmark is concerned it covers it behind by the agreement they get everyone to sign and verbally agree to at each and every programme. This agreement basically says that it is up to the individual to assess whether they should participate and if they have any medical or mental health problems they should not participate. That in itself is an abusive contract, and I kn
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
QuoteULTAWARE As time goes on I feel compelled to throw this out again....if anyone would like to discuss a poss. civil suit we need to discuss it on my e-mail, not hear.. Moderator is that comment ok with you? P A X Pax, I am not a lawyer, but I don't think we have a case here. Although it is suffering to loose someone we love to the hand of an organization or a group of individu
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Quotesonnie_deeI dont know anything about it but I can almost certainly guarantee if he was invovled with Landmark they would have worked quickly to make sure they were distanced from his suicide and to ensure that no one would make a connection between his participation with Landmark and his suicide. Landmark do not see that their programmes lead people to a place where one day they wake up
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
The situation has evolved somewhat. My Landmark girlfriend now puts me in this situation. Our relationship can continue if I promise I will never say anything negative again about Landmark. This is because she loves what she is doing, she chooses to do it and she will not stop doing it. In counterpart, she promises she will never ask me to do the Landmark Forum again. This looks like a fair
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Hi everyone, To give you an update, let me tell you that I came to the conclusion that it is barely impossible to be in a relationship with someone in Landmark. I had a discussion earlier this week with that girlfriend of mine (maybe we can stay friend, but certainly not lovers anymore and make long terms plans under these conditions), and this is what she said. She said she agrees that
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Sonnie_dee, I welcome your inputs. This is very enlightening and I know better what to expect now. But tell me , do you think this is the kind of pressure that can lead someone to depression or suicide? I reported in another post about the suicide of an Introduction Leader at Landmark about 6 months ago in Toronto, but of course my girlfriend says LEC has nothing to do with it (and she will
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Glam, Thanks for the reply. But tell me, what does it take for someone to leave LE ? You say your friends finaly left LE even though they wanted also to be Forum leaders at some point. Can you explained what happened and how they managed to get out of it? Any convincing arguments to take somebody out of LE mind control? Michael D.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
My girlfriend is very much involved in LE. She took the Forum for the first more than 4 years ago, and she is now an "Introduction leader". Her graduation was last week - I did'nt go). She now says she wants to become a "seminar leader" and she must meet some objectives of enrolling 31 people before she gets there. Of course, working as an introduction leader or semina
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Straight Talk, The influence and control that Landmark has on you is impressive. Even your nickname “Straight Talk” transpires with the Landmark influence. The fact that you “take full responsibility for the fact that some people may thing Landmark is a Cult” indicates clearly how deeply involved you have become and how the mind manipulation techniques developed by Landmark and EST are effec
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
midonov123
Hi, A friend of mine is very commited to Landmark (volunteer, advanced courses, etc...). That friend told me that a Landmark Introduction Leader committed suicice last fall. I didn't ask for much details but I heard he was from Toronto. Anybody else heard about it? Of course, that friend of mine says Landmark is not responsible for his suicide. He is. M. Donovan
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
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