Hi, I haven't posted here for a couple of years and I hope that some of you 'old timers' can direct me. I am looking for a woman who talked about "Werner's Razor' taking you to the edge of insanity. Does anyone remember who I mean or where I can find her post on that? IveGotIt
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

On Being The Source I am full of questions and never satisfied until I feel I have completed my experiences. Is Jack Rosenberg the Source of his own pain? Is Werner Erhard the persona he created which allowed him to cross the line, go over to the other side, and identify with the aggressor? Did he do that because he thought It was better to be powerful, than powerless? Is It about Jack's
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteglamSo how odd is this scenario?A disgraced psychologist who uses cultlike tactics himself to "help" people who've left a cult! Amazing. I once heard him mention Werner Erhard's name in connection with the idea , "There is no reality, only perception." :shock: IveGotIt
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

As I See ''It.'' This is part of the abstract play. This is ''One'' of the mutations manifesting in physical reality. This is HOW abstract and concrete are joined together to create a whole new ''reality.''' What is old has been made ''new'' again. Those who are after power and control will use anything that i
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Since the philosophy is "really" there are no "victims," the victim MUST be responsible for his own vicitmization. No one else CAN be. Not if the philosophy is true. Everything in it is a tautological argument that circles back on itself, and absolves the system of responsibility. Landmark, like est, is a demonstration of Itself. A major part of getting anyone out of that circ
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteMikinos What goes on at these leadership courses? Does he learn how to lead himself or recruit others? I don't think there is any real difference in this. Leading and recruiting MEANS the same thing in this. It is a chain reaction of trainer, to trainee, to trainer.....in an infinite chain that keeps going until either the chain is broken, or everyone is sucked into the action, whi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteToni Well put. They are programmed to lead you into the dance, on the razor's edge of sanity. What you call the razor's edge, I have called the abstract nexus of meaning. We mean the same thing though.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

One of the tactics you can use is to tell your friend to use concrete terms rather than the abstractions of Landmark lingo. Tell him to give you a concrete answer out of his own life experience as to what exactly he means when he uses the lingo. Anchoring someone to concrete reality may help to bring him down from the out of control "high." As someone who was targeted by a power est-e
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hello I don't think age or status of any kind has anything to do with getting caught in these things. One of the statements made in the old est training exercises was '' Your education won't help you.'' The training sessions were filled to the brim with doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. Landmark promises something a lot of people are looking for; answers to make t
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotesonnie_deedoes anybody know what the grads think of their commandments ? Hello I posted this answer before but it got lost somehow. It was, no doubt, my own error, I am not used to this style of board and I think I hit the wrong button. I will try it again. I never think people are victims of Landmark or anything else due to their age and naivety. Many of these systems are filled
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

It was said to me by an graduate of 'est' (pre Landmark) that "we "think" but don't THINK." " I discovered that more than anything, that could have been assessed as a subjective projection from within the circular anti logic of the graduate's mind which I, in my "under-standing," have perceived It to be. Let's look closer at the L
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hello, I am not actually in the groups from whom you requested answers but I thought I might have something from my own perspective on this that might help you, so I am making the offer at least. I am the targeted victim of an ''est-ee'' who chose ''power'' over ''enlightenment''. I watched him go blank many times. It looked like a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Why do you need to come up with ten good reasons to do or not to do anything? You not being taken seriously is your firend's problem not yours. You are getting "hooked" by the psychology of it. Part of that is to get you to explain your choices to them. You don't have to do that. Proceed by just saying no. If your friend doesn't "get" that, you may have to let t
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hi, I think you might find it helpful if you could locate the book Dr. Sheridan Fenwick wrote on est in 1976. It is titled "Getting It: The Psychology of est" and in it she gives an anlysis of how the programming works. It helped me to understand a self defined "est-ee" who targeted me using his est training. The only real difference bewtween est and Landmark is a sligh alte
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hello I see you posted this in 2004 so perhaps I am too late to be of much use to you. In 95 I had a psychotic breakdown after being specifically targeted "out here in concrete reality" by a guy I worked with who defines himself as an est-ee. As you know, est is the forerunner of Landmark Forum but except for a slight shift in language, the "technology" remains the same.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hello to the group: I just wanted to introduce myself. I was never a "trainee" of est myself but , I am the targeted victim of an "est-ee" who used his training to do me harm. I understand exactly how he did it and intend to share the "clearing process" with the people on this list who may benefit from hearing about my lengthy, and horrifying experience. hope to pos
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"