Further items from the Irish press: (when the Irish decide to make fun of you, you're in trouble)
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

rather unfocused discussion with a lot of yelling back and forth. Energy is being wasted on an issue that I do not believe can ever be solved. Because there's no way we can ever get consensus on whether BDSM (practiced between consenting adults) is OK or not OK. We are coming from diverse points of view that would take lifetimes to unravel. Where we can get consensus is whether a s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There is additonal contextual data on a thread that started with a question from someone concerned about the welfare of a good friend who had been recruited into Sharon Gans/Alex Horn group. The title of the thread is 'Try to identify a group named "The Work"' It traces the 'geneology' of various Fourth Way derivatives using information
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

in the November 2001 issue of Esquire--American edition. (I think Esquire has a separate edition for the UK, and dont know if that article appeared in it.) I looked all over the web trying to find an online copy of it, with no success.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

'After I became a victim of ‘Personal Development’/Human Potential work I suffered all the classic symptoms of depersonalisation: 'Feeling I was an actor observing myself in a drama or workshop called my ‘life’ instead of being a real person. 'My values and behaviour all deteriorated My decision making ability became terrible, but
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

The published material on the URLs cited earlier indicate that the Fourth Way scene may contains some potentially rough neighborhoods. Perons interested in Fourth Way work need to have street smarts so they pick up that they've entered a 'bad neighborhood'--even if its in a mansion at a prestige address. The secrecy of many work groups can be a problem. Fourth Way students con
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

One person's description of MOL can be read here: Can be read here: On one of the Google listserves, a correspondant named Mark gave the following information:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'll do some further research and see if other info is available.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

many aspiring musicians and actors do their early training under teachers who are highly dictatorial and authoritarian. Diaghilev was one of the greatest impresarios/choreographers of all time. But he took over his student-dancer's lives wholesale, dictating lifestyle, diet, what to study what to read, plus keeping them to a gruelling training schedule. In return he promised to transform th
Forum: Celebrities associated with "cult-like" groups

...as a child you probably interacted with a wide age range of people--you were not segregated in a child care setting. You probably had lots of jobs around the house and farm which meant, from a young age you learned to take direct action to help your family. You got outdoors. You handled tools. You worked on tasks from start to finish. You were in nature. Most kids today experience mu
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

here is a URL for a long article In it, David Lane gives a description on how to start a cult. He describes how to make money by NOT asking for money. 'Number two, you don't charge any money because you'll make tremendous amounts of money by not charging money. What you say is, 'This is completely free.' The more you keep saying that, you're going to get pe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Long article but meaty, full of telling details. Get a tall glass or cup of the beverage of your choice, a pen and notebook, settle into your comfy chair and see how many bells it rings. (Caution: some serious sleaze)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

are like first generation immigrants to America: you're in the same situation as people who have grown up in an ancient, cloistered traditional culture in a third world nation, and now you're all trying to learn the thought patterns needed for life in a democracy, with a society that is based on science and information sharing. Start learning to read about science. Take classes in Am
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

A high IQ is like a powerful, state of the art computer. It is only as useful as the programs that have been downloaded into it. Your intellect can be co-opted and used against you. A guy at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting told us, 'I thought I couldnt become addicted because I was so smart. 'I did not know my addiction would use my intelligence against me.' A fascinati
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

he would say "Does that make sense?" I had a boss with severe narcissistic personality disorder who would use that same phrase, over and over again until whoever he'd corralled agreed. Ex-K, I highly recommend a book by Len Oakes, entitled Prophetic Charisma. Its the finest thing I have found. Oakes was a member of a cult centered on a charismatic guru-figure, later broke fr
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Privacy is negotiated within and helps maintain peer relationships where power is shared and in balance. Secrecy is imposed within the context of a power imbalance and maintains that imbalance.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

In a list of signs that you're making spiritual progress 1)** You refuse to participate in games of dominance/submission that are on offer in various theatres of cruelty 2) You gain an increasingly sophisticated understanding of the difference between privacy and secrecy. (Privacy nurtures relationships and safeguards the freedom of other persons. Secrecy isolates, shames and impose
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I was not suggesting that 'Ex-Krishna' change his or her forum name. I was suggesting that the title of this particular 'thread' be changed to something that would give a more specific idea concerning content... Dervish mentioned: 'As I was going to their store more and more, however, I would get a distant, "creepy" feeling. I felt that everyone working th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I felt very shaky and hyper and off-balance' Time an again, dysfunctional training groups or unqualified teachers will label your experience of dissociation/depersonalization as a sign of progress, even of enlightenment, when in fact, feeling 'shaky and hyper and off-balance' is a sign that you're being traumatized and need to remove yourself from the person/social se
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Prabhu Das seemed very kind, never took money when I offered because he claimed I didn't know enough about the org to be able to do so.' This is the fiscal equivalent of the way girls in the old days were advised to 'Play hard to get'. Really smart charlatans dont make overt moves for money. They'll discourage donations, saying 'You're not ready yet&
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

[216.239.53.104] Community Perspective December 04, 2002
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I agree with elena. My guess is that in primative cultures where hunting, warfare were constant pressures, people probably sensed that a highly confident leader was essential for the clan group's survival. In such a desperate context, a fearless psychopath could serve a pro-social function. Meat was hunted down, dinner was served, and enemies were scared off. * In harsh conditions when n
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

If you're concerned, do a google on the relevant links. But the person who originally posted this on Craigslist is 100% correct: a lot of people are out there marketing tantra who have not received training from a genuine lineage. Verify all claims. It is worrisome that the person on the wholebodywisdom site calls himself 'a recovering intellectual' and that he claims to have gi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Could be that Burton has moved on to a new obsession and the chilean wine palm trees are passe.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

out there... some are covertly eager to find some way, any way to devalue compassion and empathy. Problematic LGATs are catnip for them. Another constituency hungers for some way to justify abandoning any need to respect ethics, and some even look for ways to devalue consensual reality. What they want is something that justifies a return to magical thinking (eg 'You make your own re
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Gurus actually live a rat-race existence. I used to think they were coddled. But earlier this year I read a book by Len Oakes 'Prophetic Charisma.' Oakes was able to interview 20(!) charismatic leaders of what we could call cults. He discovered that none of them lived an easy life, though a number did have entourages. He won their trust and found that all of them had to be &
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

According to many sources, Oregon House/FOF is not a legitimate Gurdjieff group. I advise that you NOT sign any documents relating to money and that you get out of there just as soon as you can. If you have signed any documents relating to finances, get out, and consult an attorney--you dont want to be the scapegoat for any iffy financial transactions. Just pack your bags and leave. You d
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'The situation speaks for itself' The pro-LGAT group rants and raves. The survivors group presents reasoned arguement, backed up by personal experience and documented evidence.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

listserve groups (done by clicking the 'groups' tab on Google, then going to 'advanced search' and putting 'Ron Spencer' in the exact phrase slot and then trying 'tulku' and then 'maitreya' in the 'all words' slot. These listserves cover discussion topics on Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, all spiritual disciplines, Indian culture, Ti
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes. If you read the chapters on in in 'Call No Man Master', Joyce Collins-Smith demonstrates that MMY was well aware, even by the late 60s, that people were becoming passive zombies as a result of practicing his method. That was perhaps one reason in addition to greed and ambition, that MMY needed yet more followers; the zombies were not doing tasks that needed to be done to keep th
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"