So, they are back to the the "game" sh*t. You'd think they might have learned, but NOOOO. Werner must have slipped in the back door. Here is somthing from Amazon on Carl Fredrick's vomit-inducing book from the 1970s which has been, (surprise surprise), reissued, to which some wag ( ;) ) added the following review. Ellen Est; Playing the Game* the New Way
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

God help 'em. And anyone who unwittingly gets involved with them. All cult leaders know how to use women to lure men into the fold. It is standard practice. These robots are doing as programmed. This just makes me want to barf. How on earth has this lunatic group managed to position itself in people's minds as something of prominence with all the information
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

You said: >>So there's no mistake ... I would not recommend Landmark to those posting in this forum. In fact, I would recommend against it--not that I imagine anyone here wants my advice.>>> Your inference here is that there are people to whom you would recommend Landmark, just not to those who post here. Well, Landmark would be a pretty to
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Jack, Never mind the 45 people who got food poisoning at the Landmark "restaurant" because it is owned and operated by people who write their own rules concerning food hygiene and "think" they ~create their own reality~ when they dip the meat in Clorox or spice up the sauce to cover the taint, YOU still want to talk about their great recipe for Oso Bucco. It's tires
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>To respond to the title of this thread. The person that started this? Probably a plant. People who find themselves on these sites were damaged by the LGATs. Not LGAT sales people. There is nobody on these sites to sell. So, it's masturbatory to read someone gloating about Landmark, Lifespring, MITT, Forum, etc. as the guy who started this thread. Who are they gloating to?
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>Robbins openly claims he does NOT do "hypnosis". He says, if anything, he "de-hypnotizes" people.>>> Hehehehehee....L. Ron said exactly the same thing. (One upper level, forget who, scientology defector put it best: "Scientology teaches people to lie.") Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Much, Mr. JackSF Have at it. The world is full of people who will join whatever idiotic fad presents itself. This was true in the 1970s and is true today for Landmark. They thrive as long as there are non-descriminating, non-critical, not-too-concerned egotists such as yourself who are suckers for the pitch and imagine themselves immune or above the unsavory aspects of involvement, or imagi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

You posted to Guy: >>You read a lot into things. No wonder you got caught up in Landmark at one time in your life. I think they do well with people who love to analyze. Stories, stories and more stories. It was just a stupid sentence I wrote.>>> It seems to me that the opposite would be the more likely scenario. Anyone with a penchant for analy
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I think you are tad bit paranoid. LEC, if they are smart, won't engage people here since it is a non-win situation. They would be laughed off this board. That's right, Mr. Rookie. As has been pointed out many times, true or efficient sociopaths rarely expend energy where there is no perceived payoff. Also, most of them know they have no chance outside the suf
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Wow, Sounds like he's being channeled. Seriously, do you know of any other group or organisation where people mimic the behavior of the leader or boss to the point that it is done at Landmark? One wonders if he shows up periodically to demonstrate proper technique in abusing, castigating, or berating people. Jan, have you read "Outrageous Betrayal?" Also, I'
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

It's the nature of the beast. Once someone has taken this stuff to heart, it is very nearly impossible to reason with them. No amount of evidence means anything to them. Even their own misgivings, doubts, discomfort, or humiliation don't seem to bring them to questioning the leader or the group. The fact is that the snake oil these people peddle works extremely well on some types.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I wrote: >>the sociopaths are often in charge because it is those qualities of ruthless self-advancement and entitlement that get those smart enough to operate within the law to the positions of wealth and power.>>> To which you added: >>The law may be the issue, not men, and not nature.>>> What kind of legal
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

You posted: >>My personal opinion is that human primate "predators" were selected for by Evolution over millions of years. Being a predator on the savanna hundreds of thousands of years ago was very useful. The problem is that in modern society, those same predatory behaviors do not work, or only work for a very short while. But those same paranoid/predatory behavi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Robert Hare, in his book "Without Conscience," talks about the intractability of psychopathy. One of the defining characteristics of a psychopath is his or her reluctance or inability to learn from mistakes or to change, even in the face of threats or certainty of punishment or confinement. There is some speculation that the psychopaths and sociopaths among us are like a variant o
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Maybe they are intelligent enough to know that it would be foolish to try to defend an organisation like Landmark in public or in an arena where they cannot control the conversation. Or that there is no defense of Landmark, really. You said: >>We are a very ‘positional’, opinionated and entrenched bunch aren’t we ? Lots of critics, a few weird fans, and very little discussi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Leona Helmsly saying "Taxes are for the little people." hehehehe A few people have called est/LEC "Catnip for the conceited." It's pretty universal. We all want to think we are "special." Groups like Landmark capitalize on this yearning and make big bucks by pandering to the ego and to vanity. Some ex-scientologist has said: "They treat losers lik
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What you've written dovetails with what Alexander Lowen talks about in his excellent little book,"Narcissism." What he describes in the narcissistic character is a failure to develop empathy, sympathy, pity, or compassion for other people and the consequence for that being an inner life of isolation and paranoia, which is the flip side of empathy, being, in psychological terms,
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I don't know a whole lot about the law, (perhaps someone with more background could corroborate or refute this), but I don't believe one relinquishes one's rights by signing a binding arbitration agreement when there is deception involved. In my business, a full disclosure, including all possible risks and complications, must accompany the arbitration agreement. The fact that
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Don't know if you've already read it but I think you would enjoy Peter McWilliams' book. It's difficult to find a copy of "Life 102; What To Do When Your Guru Sues You." The cheapest one on Amazon is $50.00 The Amazon book reviews are becoming a great source of information. Here's a link. If it doesn't work, it's to the reviews of the ab
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>Just because I was in the ILP doesn't mean I have a moving average.....As a former staff member you should know that not everyone in the ILP has a moving average. But I don't think you were a former staff member. Although you are good at avoiding the issue and making the other person wrong like a staff member.>>> So, you are aware that Landmar
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here is the passage to which I was referring. There are some interesting reviews at Amazon if you do a search on books relating to Werner Erhard. Obviously, some of his fans have attempted to discredit his critics there as well. It must really bother them that they can't control the "conversation." This one is under Jane Self's book about the "60 Minutes" expose
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What were you thinking when you wrote the following? I think you may have suffered some kind of brain damage. That is, if you were a normally functioning person before the programs. Ellen >>Okay, sorry, didnt read the rest haha. Well i guess, I do know what you mean, there were times in that course I thought I had actually LOST my emotions, Lost my whole past, whic
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

iterate and reiterate: Landmark is full of well-meaning, good-intentioned people who were, for any number of reasons, snookered by the seduction and lured into an evil organisation inside of which it is very difficult to see your way out. The clues most outsiders hear or see become inaudible or invisible once "transformed" and what would appear obvious to the unindoctrinated becom
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>Elena has not done the Forum. She must have a different excuse for her concentration difficulty. >>> I hated it from the beginning. There were plenty of people who saw right through it I thought there was something creepy about it the first time I heard someone describe it in 1974. It wasn't until I read the passage in Adam Smith's book
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Here are a couple that I find/found onerous, disturbing, frightening, manipulative, or just plain weird. The oft repeated "If you experienced it, it is true for you." What they neglect to add is that your experience may have been contrived by scammers for their own benefit, not yours. Or that you can be tricked experiencially as well as emotionally or intellectually. It's an
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

You seem to have very little insight into some of the more subtle mechanisms of influence and persuasion and think that because you were able to resist the suggestions to proselytize that you have effectively sidestepped the more onerous parts of the programming. What you say is true, in so far as most who attend Landmark programs aren't harmed in any obvious way and may derive some ben
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Corboy wrote: >>What Does Landmark Teach on Relationships? If LEC indeed teaches people to become manipulative, amoral and rut like bunnies with no regard for the feelings of others,>> This sums up in one sentence *MY* experience of the few Landmark enthusiasts I was unfortunate enough know. Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

>>Im moaning about nothing, im not unsuccessful, i love life and have loved it more since doing the forum. I agree the marketing tactics are strong, but listen to the negativity between the critics and the positivity between the sceptics.>>> You are lucky if you got out unscathed. Or relatively so. I hope your sentence above isn't an indication of so
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Poisoned to the core, Aaron. Not a matter of "wiping off." It's suffused, impregnated, incorporated in such a way as to make it very, very difficult to distill out. Listen to the old-timers. They know much better than a recent "grad." Ellen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

You guys are very, very close to the live wire, the third rail, the most dangerous and deadly part of Landmarky-type or covert abusive manipulation, or, conversely, the most beneficial part of something like Cognitive Therapy or Logotherapy. It is the examination of the malleability of perception or meaning people ascribe to events that can be useful in the hands of an ethical practitioner
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"