This is disappointing. I had some high hopes that they were letting go of the freedom-by-following-our-list thing...letting go of any teaching by Brian Brennt.
Forum: Destructive Churches

What JHH said. From what I can tell, Mike Riches is absolutely unrepentant of the lies he's told and the hurt he's caused. He seems to double- and triple-down rather than admit he's a false prophet.
Forum: Destructive Churches

Ahhhh..."submission" and "rebellion". Sounds like your church leaders have swallowed the Jesus Ministry kool-aid and are lovin' the power trip. Now I don't want you to think I'm saying all authority is bad. Scripture talks about authority (parents, government, spiritual), so it exists and is something we need to grasp correctly. *Godly* pastors who preach th
Forum: Destructive Churches

Hmmm...a few typos on my last post...not sure how to edit. Ah well...hope you can read through my mistakes!! cgj
Forum: Destructive Churches

Hopeful1: It is depressing to feel so alone. My husband and I were depressed together for weeks and we felt so isolated. We also questioned the basis for our beliefs, but our starting point was that God and the Bible were right and WE had gone wrong somewhere (multiple somewheres!). Why do we believe what we believe? We took EVERYTHING we thought we knew to be true and tested it with Scriptu
Forum: Destructive Churches

Sawdust, I know you are trying to be accurate, but Kalberg had nothing to do with the mess, and he wasn't "the" praise team leader. He lead worship now and again and ran the Crossing when is was simply an outreach to the needy (when it was located near the church, not in it's current location). Please please please don't drag people into this who are not involved. Yo
Forum: Destructive Churches

Newmama10...would have been nice to meet you as I was at the memorial, too. We didn't go to the reception, though. Sounds like the "Superbowl Sunday manifestations" has taken on a life of its own. City Central sounds absolutely aimless. fgc...sorry to hear your parents are still influenced by Mike and Cindy Riches. They went after/are after your parents beacuse of their we
Forum: Destructive Churches

Whoa. mgmintac...sadly, no surprise from me. I don't know what else to say other than I'm not surprised. I knew Jon and Kathy Graciano were ruthless, but sheesh! JHH...we started attending right after the infamous Super Bowl Sunday "manifestations". One woman did exhibit odd, growling behavior...but LEVITATING?!? No. And the man at the evening service threw chairs,
Forum: Destructive Churches

No, it's not the same church. New Song City Central is/was in Tacoma, Washington.
Forum: Destructive Churches

Hey d19s59j...I don't know. I heard some things here and there, but really it's anyone's guess since they're all so secretive. I do know that New Song went it's own way while Mike Riches was still the pastor of Destiny (before Kurt Snyder took over). New Song is no longer a "church" per se, but some kind of para-church group. Based on some random comment
Forum: Destructive Churches

Newmama...it takes time to get over all those feelings. What my husband and I found was that we need to go through EVERYTHING we had been taught and subject it to Scripture. For weeks we searched the Bible for either confirmation or refute of any, and I mean ANY, teaching. We threw out any notes from prayer times and any handouts, even if the notes were from good friends who I trust. I had to
Forum: Destructive Churches

Myspace...I knew Christy Brennt was sickly (has been for years), but I didn't know Brian was sick also. They haven't had a link to leadership on their website for quite a while so it's anyone's guess as to who's calling the shots. Newmama...sounds like you were useful to them to meet thier own ends, so noone ever asked you to step down out of concern for your physical
Forum: Destructive Churches

Newmama10...I wish I could just give you a big hug. I am deeply sorry for what you've gone through, but at the same time so glad you've found help. As for church, I totally understand what you're feeling. I never quit going to church, partly because of my children and mostly because of the command of scripture. However, I found myself projecting all the negative feelings and re
Forum: Destructive Churches

Myspace...I just discovered that City Central is no longer having any Sunday services. Has your daughter mentioned why they would stop meeting as a church? Very surprising. As for YWAM and Call2All, I know one of their pastors (worship) and his wife are in DTS in Perth, Australia. He attended a Call2All conference (Tokyo?), but I don't know how close he is to any of thier leadership.
Forum: Destructive Churches

Simeon, thank you for your words of encouragement for familes with loved ones at City Central. Your assessment of the spiritual abuse that takes place there is spot on. City Central (formerly New Song then New Song City Central), Destiny City Church (formerly Clover Creek), and The Crossing are seperate churches (NS and the Crossing were "birthed" out of Clover). New Song met on
Forum: Destructive Churches

Myspace...things could change and probably will if something is not working out to their liking. When I was there we heard the words "God has changed His mind" to explain why we were stopping something that was sooooo "of the Lord" (but a flop) and beginning something completely different. New Song City Central is non-denominational (always has been). They were supposed
Forum: Destructive Churches

From what I can tell over my 5 years with Clover Creek/New Song/Crossing is that the leaders never had an original thought. Everything was/is plagerised. That's why I think Catalyst is a lot like YWAM: Brian Brennt and his co-horts were heavily involved with YWAM and all of a sudden are not. It seems like Catalyst is City Central's version of DTS and outreach. A copy. Myspac
Forum: Destructive Churches

The Freedom Manual is anything but. I was around Clover Creek (now Destiny) and New Song when it was being written and it's nothing but a works-based model. Bascially it lists a major "stronghold", like "insecurity" or "rebellion" or "disbelief" or "religious sprit", and then lists all the ways that this stronghold can manifest itself. A p
Forum: Destructive Churches

Myspace...I don't know anything about Catalyst other than it looks like a copy of YWAM. However, I'm not surprised that you're not hearing from your daughter. And I'm not surprised you've heard nothing back from CC. If you read the whole thread you'll know why. I don't have any suggestions for other than do everything you can to stay connected to your da
Forum: Destructive Churches

Simeon...it is indeed frightening for all of the reasons you stated: deception, lies, manipulation, mind control. I agree that they may not realize they're corrupt because they've been living the lie so long (both leadership and congregants). CL98405...I have no idea what's going on at City Central. For a while I wondered if they were defunct , but now it seems they're
Forum: Destructive Churches

oops...looks like I *did* respond to your post on the Destructive Churches forum. I'm glad tinasue got to read what you wrote. cgj
Forum: Coercive Persuasion and Undue Influence

Revalesio *used* to be co-run by the trio of Clover/Destiny, Crossing, and New Song. At least it was when we went there. Now it seems to be soley under the control of New Song. We were told by leadership that "revalesio" meant "hope restored" in Italian. We looked it up...it's the name of a river in Italy and that's about it. It has nothing to do with hope or re
Forum: Destructive Churches

I'm just now coming across this post...well said. Sounds like Mike and Cindy Riches are spreading "Jesus Ministry" and "Freedom Prayer" (they now call it the Sycamore Commission) in the UK and causing damage there, too. I responded to a lady from the UK in the Destructive Churches thread...she should read what you had to say. I'm so sorry for all you've b
Forum: Coercive Persuasion and Undue Influence

Tinasue...I'm so sorry for you and your husband. When we left Clover Creek, it was like a divorce. We felt depressed. None of the leaders contacted us, and your former ministers won't contact you either. I'm also sorry for your friends who are becoming dependent on "words" rather than the Word. Sadly they will doubt their every emotion and every desire until they tak
Forum: Destructive Churches

You are rightly concerned. The Riches' idea of "freedom" seems helpful at first, but in the end it is a false gospel and bondage. It is very simialar to the Galatians who were dealing with people in the church saying there were certain works that HAD to be done in order for there to be salvation. Romans 6 says I am justified at the cross. Sanctification then begins, but my just
Forum: Destructive Churches

lamisa22- Even though I went through much of what you describe I'm still so sorry it happened to you and your husband. We left Clover Creek right about the time you started getting involved...sounds like nothing has changed!! "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" was incredibly helpful to my husband and me. It was hard to read some of it, though, and have to admit that
Forum: Destructive Churches

Brios58...at the Crossing people are required to go to church in exchange for clothes/food? That's horrible!! I've been out of their system for a bit now and I never knew that. It just makes me sick. I never see Jesus bribing people into the kingdom...makes me wonder why Crossing thinks it's a legit way to minister. I'm not surprised they intimated you were being used o
Forum: Destructive Churches

Crazylady98405...you're not crazy. What you're seeing in your family members (elitism, constant self-condemnation, slavish loyalty to New Song) is exactly how my husband and I thought/acted during our time at Clover Creek (now Destiny City Chuch). It's sad to see that nothing has changed since we left a couple of years ago. Thankfully God showed my husband and I our fear, pride,
Forum: Destructive Churches

Quotehiskid We are commanded to evaluate church teachings using the Bible as our standard. Exactly. That's why we left Clover/New Song.
Forum: Destructive Churches