Sallie, you have a good point and it makes a lot of sense.Thank you. Tsukimoto, can so relate to what you say about sometimes missing the good things in the group.Will never go back, value freedom of thought too much, but there are things that I do miss. THE Dean 001; while meditation is helpful for some people, and obviously works well for you, you may be interested in reading Joe Kellets
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Unless Byron Katies' work is a non profit organization,I don't think anything you gave her would be a tax write off at all. Personally if I was going to a seminar where I knew there was a chance that after doing altered state /trance work, someone would be asking me to hand over my jewelry, I'd be wearing plastic. And having huge questions about that persons' integrity.. He
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Pegasus, Really asking questions about religion takes a great deal of courage and you show that..Wish I had some pat answers for you, but having left my group some years ago, have never had that same sense of absolute religious certainty. But am reasonably comfortable without it:and maybe one day that will change. For now being kind , praying sometimes, and following my own sense of religion
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Hi Sallie, Don't know the details of things that went on in your group, but a couple of suggestions; 1 Sexual abuse of children can and should be reported to the police or child welfare organizations. By doing this, you may be able to protect someone who needs it. 2.Hopefully, you were not planning on naming a victim here.If you were, please reconsider.People who have been sexually abuse
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

Hi Watching4amorc; I can see you believe very deeply in your group. Lots of people here once believed very deeply in their group too. There is often a common money pattern in cult groups. There aren't many cults that punish people if they don't hand over money. Generally the pressure is done subtly. You are showing your dedication..if you donate money. You are showing how much you v
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Actually, was just looking up the definition of narcissism again,and it seems like a lot of the traits do apply for cult leaders; belief in themselves as superior or special, grandiosity, sense of entitlement. Narcissistic wound seems to apply too. One I am not so sure about is lack of empathy. The leader of our group would alternate between rage ( when you really needed to walk quiet and not dra
Forum: Coercive Persuasion and Undue Influence

When thinking about whether all cult leaders are necessarily narcissists or sociopaths, I am really not sure. The leader of our group seemed to believe, and acted accordingly, but also used power badly. Looking at an obvious cult group such as Koresh, it still seems that the leader had some type of belief. A pure con artist would have done a deal with the feds, or snuck out of the compound and
Forum: Coercive Persuasion and Undue Influence

Hi QuackDave, also as a collary to that , it is wisest to never give out personal information to people on this board, even in pms. I have never regretted information I have not given out. Sometimes I have deeply regretted contacting people however.Generally it is safest just to not tell people anything.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Jupiter, yes, leaving the group is hard.It was great to have the certainty, growing up, of having all the answers, knowing what to believe, what the truth really was..and then suddenly, everything changes. And there are no easy answers,and it is hard to tell who is right and who is wrong. And instead of belonging, we look at life as an outsider. Sometimes I think of it as like a chick hatc
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Hi Jupiter, hang on in there! There is some stuff that us born and raised/second generation kids experience differently: and at different times have felt much as you do.Hard to really belong when your background has been so different. I think sometimes the loneliness of having to forge a whole new life for yourself is more of an issue for those of us whose parents and family are in the group.
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Sometimes i think it is loneliness, pure and simple rather than necessarily any desire for specialness,or even lack of confidence, that leads us to want to connect to people.Social contact with others is a basic human need. But it is better to deal with loneliness, than to be in a relationship with someone who will hurt you. In this world, no one is perfect, but there are many decent people
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Xythos; there is an old saying, don't talk about religion or politics at the dinner table; perhaps on this board it is better to focus on the religion, and leave out the politics.. What is interesting is that it seems to me that you, Anticult and Corboy are all saying similar things in different ways.Anticult is pointing out the importance of understanding that cult leaders want unque
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thats something that has always had me in a bit of a puzzle. If Byron Katie is saying, as quoted by Anticult, that it is a wonderful experience to loose 100% of the money you have, why would she want liabilty waiver forms to be signed? After all, what is, is. And if she really feels that losing 100 % of what you have is fine, and could be a great spiritual experience, then why is it that it appe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anticult, I agree with your view on cult leaders.The old saying power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely seems very applicable.Sometimes it seems that some leaders start out with good intentions, but I believe that it is the lack of checks and balances, and that there is no one able to say to the leader "hold on a minute, stop! What do you think you are doing", that means t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Have the deepest respect for all the people who have suffered through a lgat experience. Am not sure about the theory that people attracted to LGATs are narcissists though. If I remember correctly,(and sorry can't find the original study:will see if I can track it down at some point ) someone did a study on personality types amongst cult members and found they were typical of outside soci
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Hi Wendyjduncan, just wanted to comment on your question about non verbal communication.( I am not trying to answer for John, who I know very well, and have a great deal of respect for as a therapist, so these are just my own thoughts). It seems that different therapeutic modalities have different advantages and disadvantages. While obviously an on line support group is not going to be great a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Amely, it ha been hard figuring this stuff out, and only want to talk about what works for me as everyone ends up doing it a bit differently. With groups, as a friend recently commented, any time a group of people are all agreeing with each other completely, than can be a real trigger for he ( and me) to avoid them. Even in on line discussions, I will fade out if it seems that only "yes m
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Hey Zeusor, just wanted to say something in defence of apostate and the other posters here: for many people leaving a group, finding someone to help them understand and talk things through is vital. Personally, I wish someone like Apostate had been around when I decided to leave my group: his compassion and genuine caring for group members comes across strong. You are great at finding out info,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Sorry haven't been posting much here:life is very hectic. Re Egypt Eire, my guess is that curently nothing anyone says here will be taken positively by him: in fact if he is trying to win approval from Dave, criticizing people here will probably score him some points. However, if he joins the JCs ( which is where he appears to be heading), and after experiencing the reality of JC li
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Josh, interesting reply: thank you for being willing to write and discuss your beliefs here. I think the crux of the matter is where you stated that you do not see something wrong with whipping someone. Everyone is entitled to their own views on appropriate punishment. And apparently the Kenyan government at least at some point in the past agreed with yours.( I think international law does
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Apostate, your postings are great, nice to read about what was happening.There is a lot of useful information there for a lot of people. Kirstie my heart goes out to you.It can be so hard and confusing when you think you have found all the answers, and then for whatever reason find that it is not so. Sometimes a great feeliing of being let down.Can be an emotional time. Please take it easy and t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anticult; you have a point."Know thyself" is very important and we all have vulnerabilities, that in the right situation can be exploited. Re lying I think it is a huge sign of problems in a group. For me one of those "A-Ha' moments was when I realized: hold on, if God saw everything, why are we all pretending ( inside the group) that certain things didn't happen?If it
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

With respect Anticult, that post reads like a more sophisticated version of blame the victim..ie these people have personality disorders; it wouldn't have happened to ordinary people...don't have them to quote, but I think there were some studies that indicated that many different personality types join cults? Am sure that people readjusting to the "outside world" often h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I know that many of the people on this forum felt (as I did) that Dave's mother should not have been quoted here. And I am assuming that most of the JC members felt that way too. Given that, I don't quite understand why no one on the JC forum has made any comment on Joe's request that his younger brother posts his personal communications on a public forum.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Apostate: I also really enjoy your posts: please keep writing,Yasmin
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I just realized that I got an invitation from Dave to join his forum ( thank you for the thread title, Dave) It was kind of you to offer to dialogue there. At the moment, though, you can say whatever you want there, (in fact with no restrictions at all, since it is your forum), for me however, I am not sure how what I write would be edited ( as others who have posted on your forum have mention
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To Kirstie, and any others thinking of joining a high demand religious group, All I can tell you about is my group, and about the experiences of some of my friends. They may or may not apply to your experience. Only you can tell. In my group, people were genuinely kind and had a strong belief in following God. They were/are good people. I still love them dearly. Being a child in the group w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi : Sorry to have delayed replying to this, but have just realized that on the Jesus Christian's website, I was supposed to either be Sheila, or have been contacted by Sheila.Just wanted to set the record straight: No to both. I read Dogsmothers post, was worried and went to the Jesus Christian website where Dave had already posted an email describing the danger Joe was in. I pos
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Love the idea of a book! Some of you may be interested in checking out a blog called "the guru looked good" where an ex devotee offers writing courses and puts short stories on her blog written by various ex group members. Cultmalleus, Apostate, your writings are emotionally wrenching and thought provoking.I admire your courage. Zeuszor, you might find it helpful to look at the &quo
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for the link Zeuszor. So glad it sounds like everyone is safe for now: am still praying (and am sure many others are too) for everyones' safety. Dogsmother, I liked your Bahai quotes.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"