QuoteSceptic Watcher@warrenz => number of members NKT was founded in 1991, while Ole is around since the 70ies. While NKT proselytizes more aggressively, they did so for a shorter time span. They also have the problem of even worse PR than Ole because of their fight with the Dalai Lama. The Karmapa Controversy isn't known outside buddhist circles, the Dalai Lama is. => finances T
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Even if the advertized figure is 70,000 I think it is still a gross overestimation. Perhaps my figure of 10,000 is too low but I was trying to compare against a similar group - the NKT. It claims 200 centers and 900 associated study groups in 40 countries. This is more than the c.650 centers/groups claimed by DWB in c. 50 countries. Yet the NKT's wikipedia page puts membership at 8,000 on
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesuenam Actually that sounds like a good idea, however - what would then become of the (claimed) 700,000 DWB members? I think this idea may work if it is a 'bluff' to shake DWB out of their complacency, however I can't see how Shamar's hand is strong enough if Nydahl chooses to call it. Where did you get the claimed 700,000 figure from? I have never seen a membershi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesuenam Were Shamar to withdraw his support for Nydahl then the whole issue of the two Karmapas would implode and the result would be a one-sided 'victory' for Ugyen Trinlay and his supporters. Does that strike you as a satisfactory resolution to this issue? Would it not in fact be preferable for Shamarpa to work toward a scenario where DWB became less of a personality cult and more
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

@carlitos This is a response to a couple of points in two posts you made. "said Shamarpa has a monastic tradition instead he has a tradition for Yogi. They are two different things and he said me I had to decide where to stay. " Ole is not a yogi - he has not done the retreat time to qualify. Nor did he even have a yogi as his teacher so he has no ngakpa (yogi) transmission -
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotedariusbmy apologies for going of topic a bit. warrenz, the reason i called Ugyen Trinlay a "Chinese Karmapa" just because He is recognised as "Leaving Buddha" by Chinese government. . If everything to take on face value than let's take Ole vs Shamarpa. 1) Shamarpa does not teach vajrayana to western people he clearly can see that it is unsafe for us. Ole ca
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteSteveLpool I was told that Caty Hartung would receive the transmission or even Tomek Lehnert (but this was before Tomek took a break from active DWB activities). I was also told that DWB are Nydahl’s centres and that it was unlikely that they would be passed over to Karmapa (or Shamarpa) on the basis that Tibetan’s financial knowledge is a little naive and they couldn’t trust them with what
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotedariusbjust went through some of the posts. I have a question? Warrenz are you trolling? it looks to me you are trying to swing the topic from Ole and DW to "Shamarpa is not honest man" topic. Many people who met Shamar Rimpoche have deep respect ant trust in him. May be sometimes he comes out a bit business like but that his teaching style very much Contrary to Ole. I understan
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesuenam One thing I'm not clear on here - earlier you suggested Shamarpa wasn't a pushover and that he should stand up to Nydahl, withdraw his support etc., but from what you've written here it seems that a consequence of this is that he withdraw his 'claim to the throne' too. While we may see that as Shamar's personal ambition, I'm certain Shamarpa believes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotekaram-mudraAn interesting information about Urgen Trinley: Yes, local Himachal Pradesh politicos trying to make a name for themselves. Pity you did not see fit to also include the following the following: "India drops criminal charges against the Karmapa Lama Agence France-Presse Apr 24, 2012 NEW DELHI // Indian officials dropped all criminal charges yesterday against
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesuenam Oh yes, I agree completely, but I fail to see how this could be accomplished, particularly if Shamarpa withdraws his support as you suggest - would this not risk polarizing the situation? On a minor point, my experience of current and prospective members was that the idea that "Ole is trusted by the Tibetan hierarchy and his teachings are authentic" was actually one of th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteNyalaanaRecently there have been some speculations here why Sharmapa might speak out for or against Ole Nydal. I can not imagine the Sharmapa to speak out against Ole, if Ole does not attack TB or all the Lamas or Sharmapa directly. Why should he? He might say Ole is a genuine teacher even if he does not aggree with several standpoints of Ole, like view on Islam or his sexual behavior. He do
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesuenam I view it as sound advice and a reinforcement of what I take to be sound Buddhist practice rather than an attack on anyone in particular - that's why I fail to see why the dates are relevant - given that the ideas found there may also be found in texts from over 1000 years ago, I fail to see how one from 3 years ago could be called "old". You may wish to speculate on
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

@ seunam You may dismiss my opinion since I do not have any time for Shamar but it seems very strange that he would make veiled suggestions as you imply that people should stay away from Nydahl and then write a completely clear and forthright letter dismissing all allegations against Ole and providing unequivocal support. The article you quote dates from June 21 2009. the letter on Ole'
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

@karma-mudra I don't see Shamar as Amitabha. I see him as a very ordinary man who, despite the best spiritual education, tried to run the Karma Kagyu lineage as the family business and when no-one would play ball, he went off to start up a new business with his own Karmapa against the advice of his own teachers. I am sorry you have had such an unfortunate time with Ole and those around
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

@Jamgon Face up to it Jamgon. If Shamar and Thaye Dorje do not support Nydahl they should say so and stop teaching at his centres. Thaye Dorje is teaching under the auspices of Diamondway in London this weekend along with Shamar's brother Jigmela. This link www.karmapa.org shows him with Nydahl in Hungary last week! Shamar is extremely vocal about anyone who he does not like. See the copi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It looks like the argument over the authenticity of Shamar's letter of support is a sign of the cognitive dissonance that his supporters are feeling. Shamar (and probably Thaye Dorje too) do not like what Ole does but they cannot bring themselves to denounce him outright because his organization is the only one of any significant size that supports them. Shamar has been disowned by the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotesuenamPersonally I think Nydahl is big and ugly enough to take responsibility for himself and it is not really for Shamarpa to play "daddy" in this situation. Nydahl has strongarmed the German Buddhist association and the letters show how he has manipulated Shamarpa in the same way. It is feasable that Shamarpa looks to the future to gain support from a hopefully less cultish D
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesuenam Yes - I think given the quoted 2013 date, the dodgy signature, and the totally different style, I think the letter is questionable. I notice Shamarpa's take on Islamic extremism, "...just as we should show compassion on the victims, we should also have compassion on the terrorists due to their ignorance." is also radically different to Nydahl's patronising, dism
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotepuellaOther Shamar Rinpoche’s Letters with two (or three) different signatures. Is there some suggestion that Shamar's letter of approval of Nydahl is a forgery? Not sure what you are getting at here. Surely there can be no serious question that Shamar does not support Nydahl? Without Shamar's backing Ole Nydahl would not be as prominent as he is and as able to get away with
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Remember that Shamar relies heavily on Nydahl to bolster his Karmapa candidate Thaye Dorje who has little or no support among Tibetans - or indeed anyone much outside Shamar's family and students. Indeed the vast majority of Thaye Dorje supporters belong to Diamondway. Shamar needs Nydahl on his side even though I suspect he does not have much time for him personally. Having watched him f
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotecorboyHere is a question for warren or other readers who are informed: What exactly are 'kriyas'? Is this another term for kundalini? And are either of these equivalent to what is termed rlung disorder in Tibetan medicine? Tendzin Palmo describes how she had herself assessed in dharamsala before beginning a 3 year meditation retreat. 'Lung appears to be some s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Corboy, Thanks for posting all the background on this. I am amazed that this situation has not hit the mainstream news media maybe it's still a bit too soon. As regards the Dalai Lama - you've got to remember he isn't the Pope. He has moral authority but little else. Much as we would like him to rein in Sogyal or Ole Nydahl or Michael Roach or Kelsang Gyatso, ther
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I am very surprised that these guys have never made it onto this forum over the years. Roach started as a Buddhist monk but was later censured by the Dalai Lama's office when he started a relationship with yoga teacher McNally. Subsequently, he started teaching a mixture of yoga and Hindu spirituality along with Tibetan Buddhist ideas in his Diamond Mountain University centre in the Ariz
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quote"Are you seriously trying to ostracise Mary Finnegan because she wrote that somebody is a respected lama who is on the side of Shamar Rinpoche and Thaye Dorje?" No. Alexander Nevsky wondered why MF did not criticise Ole Nydahl. I merely suggested that she may have a link to a teacher who is friendly with Ole and maybe this explains why perhaps she doesn't - despite her em
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteAlexander NevskyWhat worries me however in Mary Finnigan's writing is that she criticizes everybody but Ole Nydahl and Karmapa Thaye Dorje. No word of criticism about these two. And The Guardian clearly promoting Ole Nydahl's book.... What's going on here????? Mary Finnigan has been around in print and on the internet forums for many years now and makes an occasional living
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It's often said of the Dalai Lama that he would turn up to the opening of an envelope provided that the envelope had "Tibet" written on it (and some less charitable souls might also had a donation to the Free Tibet fund in it). I certainly would agree that HHDL should do a few more background checks before letting himself be photographed with however. But do you genuinely think
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteStoicTitle of the thread is a very general 'Doubts about the Dalai Lama' not 'is he running a cult'--that was your interpretation, thus setting up a non-existent strawman. I think it is only right that one involved in a path like the vajrayana where the relationship between teacher and student is so important should raise any doubts they have about a lama and seek to ge
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

My post was not in any way to be considered as a "thought stopper" much less a "simple minded apologia". Merely a call to look carefully at the motives of those who claim the Dalai Lama is up to no good. There are many powerful interests groups trying to undermine him - several of them are cults that have been called out on this very forum. If you have evidence of cultic be
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I think one should proceed carefully when believing criticisms of the Dalai Lama. Not that I think he is above criticism but there are many vested interests who want to do him down. Most notably: The Chinese Communist Party The Murdoch Press (at the behest of the Chinese Communist Party) Various discontented groups within the Tibetan Community (e.g. Dorje Shugden Society) Various Wes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"