Rick, it's better if you ask Xenophone, as he is the one who knows me the most. Malcom has never met me, and apostate has spent little time with me and that was about nine years ago.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotesWord From our perspective. We were away at the time. Mckay or someone else senior in the group was seen by neighbours to be helping Ash load stuff into a van. We came home from a trip to find the house half empty and a short note from Ash with his house key. Okay, so it's clear it was actually ASH who took the stuff out of your house. Are you accusing your step-son of theft?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

i am still waiting on responses to my previous posts. Cultmalleus was happy enough to respond, and I appreciate that. It's good that apostate is happy for people to ask him about his beliefs.[...] Malcom claims to agree with our beliefs, but he just wants Dave (and Roland) out of the picture. I guess he has no problem with the small autonomous teams that are operating in different coun
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecultmalleus I accept that. I know you are trying to follow God. Thank you for that song quote. It does seem somewhat familiar! "The system" can be any group we are attached to. Any time we follow procedures and traditions and leaders just from habit and allow cruelty to abide so that the system is upheld we are systemites. I wish you all the best. I fully agree with y
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Malcom, thanks for writing to me. I must say that I find you amusing at the very least. You keep setting yourself up as an authority on what I should and shouldn't do. You little manipulator!! :o) As far as the policy with Quakers and other churches goes, I cannot speak for what happened in the 80s, because I wasn't there. I joined in 1997, which is TWELVE YEARS after you left!!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteapostateFran, I have met you. I know you are an intelligent man. Yes, you have met me. But can you say that you really know me? We only distributed together a couple of times, and I never really lived with you. QuoteapostateI do not believe that you are free and autonomously operating because I also know how Dave works, and because I believe the account of Xenophone that the JC'
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotecultmalleusFran, your last response makes me sense this discussion is getting to you. It's true it can be frustrating to have to keep saying some stuff over and over again. Eventually, I'll probably give this forum a break, as I would like to invest my time into other things I'd like to get done. QuotecultmalleusImagine studying to gain skills to help others, then r
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There is a lot to comment on, and I would like to comment on a few things. However, I'll start with responding to James first (Xenophone), as he is the one who knows me better than anyone else, and I was quite close to him. QuoteJamesHi Fran, I find it troubling that you, or any other JC, still thinks that you are in autonomy. For me it's so obvious that the autonomy was just anothe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Cultmalleus, I am not sure where our conversation is going, because we are both firmly stuck in what we are saying, and I especially don't appreciate it when people twist my words to make them say something that I have not said. (e.g. claiming that I said following God means staying in the group. No, following God means following God.) You imply that I am a slave, brainwashed,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecultmalleus It's good to have you here Fran. An opportunity to have a free discussion without groupthink/Davethink is mentally healthy. Thank you. I also agree that discussions without groupthink are mentally healthy. I guess you believe that us JCs don't have many opportunities to have free discussions. This is despite the fact that most of us are split up into autonomous te
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoterrmoderator As some here might recall "PtolemyGlenn" was banned for bad behavior that violated the posted rules. Simply put, he was and is an "Internet troll." Which means what, Rick? Seriously, what did Glenn do that deserved him to be banned the first time? Will you call me an internet troll too? What do I need to avoid so that I won't be labelled one and be
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoterrmoderatorFran: I notices that for some reason you have apparently chosen not to answer the simple questions asked in a previous post. Is this because you cannot or will not? Or maybe it's just because I didn't see your post or didn't have time to answer it when I was online last. Such explanations never seem to come to your thoughts, because you want so badly to bel
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoteapostate I do not recall Jesus ripping universities and third world countries off, or refusing to pay taxes. I don't recall doing either of those either. QuoteApostateYour group is not serving the underpriveleged by exploiting poor countires and dodging that countries rightful dues in export taxes. And just how do you think we are doing that? QuoteapostateYou are not s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoteapostate Really Fran, How about Freedom of Information. Or are the JC's less transparent than the government that supports your leader. At least the government does not question a person's motives for asking to see documents. I will give it a try here. Could you please post articles related to the 144000 here for us to read. We are curious. Is that good enough motivation Su
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotecultmalleusWasting your life Fran working for Dave is sad. Yes, it would be sad if I was wasting my life working for Dave. However, I didn't join the JCs because I liked Dave. I joined them because they were (and still are) the group that more closely resembles a practical application of the teachings of Jesus. QuotecultmalleusDoesnt it make you frustrated that you want to go out
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteXenophoneQuotezeuszorHey Xenophone, spills the beans, man: what are the "private teachings"? The secret Jesus Christian handshakes? :lol: As for so called "secret handshakes" amongst the JCs, there really aren't many, but I have noticed at least one. This was one that I used to do with another JC there, so I know it exists. How it works is two JCs would meet
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorThe Reserved Articles sections state that "We are not trying to be secretive, but we are trying to get people to read the most important articles (those that are freely available) first." Well, my Bible is freely available, so shouldn't any and all Bible studies be so too? That kind of secrecy makes you look real, real suspicious. Come on, you know it's true.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorSumYou probably remember me too Fran. I visited you JCs once in Dallas in Spring/Summer 2002 and you all gave me the willies. Hi, Brian. Yes, I remember you. I don't know what giving someone "the willies" is, though. Is it being afraid? QuotezeuszorAs a whole, you just all seemed to be a pretty pissed off bunch to me. I saw no fruit of the spirit in my b
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecultmalleus Hitler and Stalin were both beaten mercilessly as children. So was Dave, I believe . And so it continues. Do you really think it is fair to compare Dave with Hitler and Stalin? Thanks, Xenophone, for your contributions. I think one difference with regard to the divine authority is that we still teach that you should follow God in preference to any human leader (whether or
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotemuppetLies, lies and more lies Fran. I have just checked my sources again and you lied. You verbally attacked that woman before she likened you to the devil. No, Muppet, I have not lied. I have told you exactly what took place that evening at the police station. But again, it is clear that you are not interested in the facts. Even if I were to prove to you 100% without a shadow of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteTDYou must be very forgiving to let a woman who called you the devil stay at yur apartment with you. Did she join your group? We have lots of people who stay with us from time to time who are not members. This is especially true when it comes to relatives of members. We encourage good relationships between members and their relatives. However, in some cases, as in the woman from the U.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotekathFran, you ask to be questioned as to anything your group does that is unbiblical. The whole basis for attacking us is that Dave (the founder of our community) was in a controversial group for three months 30 years ago. Since people want to paint us as unthinking robots, I asked for specific examples of Dave getting us to do something that went against the teachings of Jesus. So far n
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteFran When I spoke of being present with the 19 year old, I was talking about the case when we went to the police station in the U.K. and his mother was arrested for assaulting him and later for biting one of the police officers Quotemuppet Fran I have checked the details of this case and you are sensationalising events and telling outright lies. The only sensationalism in this thread h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoterrmoderatorFran: If you have gone so far as to follow Dave's idea that members of his group donate kidneys, as many have, you certainly are a deeply commited follower. Rick, why do you persist in wanting Dave to look like a totalitarian and the rest of us as brainwashed puppets who will do anything Dave says? Many of us stand up to Dave and challenge him whenever we feel that he is
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoterrmoderator You are here as an apologist, which is obvious from your posts. I don't know what an apologist is, so I don't know if I am here as one or not. I was just browsing your site and I came across this thread which talks about the group that I am in. I thought that I could answer some of the questions people have. As I have said before, I am not trying to get people
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotemuppetWell I can see how you are disappointing oyurself then Fran because you placed yourself in a position claiming to be capable of sussing out the genuine enquiries from the not genuine. And no doubt about it in your mind ...you can do it...you can sort out the time bandits form the sincere and such bullshit. I was disappointed, not because I can't answer questions, but because y
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I came back to the site, hoping to contribute more to the thread and clarify any genuine enquiries. However, I was totally overwhelmed by the amount of questions you have asked, muppet, and also by your overall tone. It seems that anything I say can and will be used against the Jesus Christians, so why should I bother now to spend so much time answering your questions. For example... "
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi everyone. My name is Fran. I am a member of the Jesus Christians. I have visited your site frequently to see things from your perspective. I am not sure how much freedom of speech is allowed in this forum (ie. whether someone like me - a member of the targetted group - is writting). Since some of you have asked people to provide objective evidence, I thought I would contribute some based
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"