Stoic: "Any widescale attempt at changing policies for towns and cities--so that all can transition--would require radical central government intervention and enforcement" Yes I am inclined to agree- I think this recent post by Greer sums it up quite well (though I dont agree of course with his spiritualist stance!): See also my favourite PO blogger Dmitri Orlov for a more si
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Stoic: "Do they really think that they can circle the middle-class wagons and have a bucolic back to the land idyll--as if the rest of us dont exist and won't be hungrily eyeing up their cabbage patches, cowhorns and all? " Transition Towns are absolutely not, primarily anything to do with back-to-the-land survivalism. Rob is just as scornful as you are of such an approach- &qu
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

" And for maintaining authoritarian and unquestionable power, a system based on assertions that cannot be proven false is the way to go" That is a brilliant insight, thanks Corboy. Any ideology that refuses to change with new evidence is inherently oppressive; so many times have I been told, "You cannot say that!" by alternative therapists and the like- it quickly becomes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Maple: "So now my question is what is the connection between permaculture (which I tend to like) and biodynamics (which I tend not to like) if Holmgren (he is one of the two founders of permaculture) has a brother who is associated with the Steiner stuff, etc." I think you are confusing Holmgren's brothers views on the 9-11 conspiracy, mentioned earlier- which many in the PO mo
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Shakti All I read from you is smoking guns smoking guns smoking guns but no real evidence. You havnt explained why you think ASPO need be anything other than what it claims to be- a think tank studying Peak Oil and gas. Sorry, but I dont see anything strange about oil geologists funding each other. What we need to know is, how much is ASPO funded by the oil companies? For example, did they jus
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Fascinating discussion of Transition and Anthroposophy here:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Shakti I'll have to ask you to clarify your views on a couple of things: I just dont get why the oil companies- who AFAIK have been denying oil shortages mostly- would start ASPO in order to support their interests of more drilling. Firstly, I dont see any sign that anything ASPO says does encourage more drilling, even indirectly; they appear to me to be merely warning of near-peak. Obvio
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

OK I have looked at some of the stuff on the Carrying Capacity Network, which also includes on its panel of advisers Bartlett, Herman Daley, Catton. It is a weird website, clearly promoting far-right Christian agendas, inc. alarmist anti-immigration and homophobic propaganda. I certainly wouldnt support it; I rather think though that it is using the valid human-ecological issues of overshoot to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Shakti: "how can you reconcile an economic collapse which will reduce Oil demand with the notion that PO has caused it or that said collapse won't mitigate Peak Oil?" Speculation, as Campbell has described. Its not so clear as a cause-and-effect, more that the two issues are inter-connected because of the way the markets work. Its a circular process: speculation causes price hike
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

margarets: "no one should allege that any group is a cult" in the same post you quote me from I clearly state that TT is NOT a cult- but it is apparently wide open to influence from and possibly even a take-over from Anthroposophy, who clearly already have a strong influence -see the Triodos quotes for proof. And TT claims to be something it is not- see Rob's "Critical thin
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

margarets: "As for Triodos, it's a fact of life that every bank is is on some level advancing a political agenda. Money is always political. None of this makes Transition Towns a cult." No, it doesnt, but Triodos is a cult, which might work, let's say, by the very powerful technique of offering money to unsuspecting groups who will then of course be indebted to.. a cult. I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Shakti: "-But according to the Transers and Peakers, we "only have until 2015" until oil peaks and everything hits the fan." In case you hadnt noticed, the shit has already hit the fan- in the form of an almighty financial collapse, something predicted for years by many inside (and of course outside) the PO movement. How much the financial collapse is related to PO or
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

karenb: And don't try to front like you're not slavering for the great die-off, after which you think can restructure society in your own (freaky, freaky) image. Before Rob showed up Let me get this straight: your are saying that Rob- in common with PO doomers- are actually "slavering" for a die-off. I dont want to be an apologist for Rob, but I really do not think that i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hey, I had posted a reply to some of Shakti's points about 24 hours ago... did it get lost?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoterrmoderator"I'm making the point that any person who becomes a public figure takes the risk of having their personal life scrutinized...." Again, seems like a threat. First of all, anyone posting here anonymously is completely protected against such threats. Second, if you continue along these lines (i.e. threatening members of this message board) you will be banned f
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ive been reading the Peak Oil Debunked website- he doesnt seem to have updated it since Nov 2009?! Im not convinced- his "4 whoppers" against LATOC are easily answered (and have been in any PO primer) eg: -"Truth is, there is tremendous waste in our current use of energy....We could cut back a lot and not miss it. In an emergency, we could cut back even more, just like we did to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Graham here, permaculture teacher in Ireland. I am quoted on page 3 of this forum by Corboy, having debated anthroposophists on my blog www.zone5.org. What is most notable for me from this forum is that conspiracy theories cut both ways: Shakti seems just as cultish and pseudoscientific as Transition is claimed to be. The idea that all peak oilers are part of a grand conspiracy, somehow link
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"