I do want to add, and this is only my opinon, consider me a troll if you wish. What I read of the coercive persuasion article, yeah that is a nasty aspect of some human institutions and obviously non-mainstream groups. Since I haven't been a part of Byron Katie's I can't say one way or another. [...] The marathon things on LGATS also made alot of sense to me, just masking ne
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""Kassy then tries to distort the SPECIFIC TECHNIQUES being explained, by trying the tactic that has been tried over and over, to use MISDIRECTION. By saying its some type of "MAGIC" and trying to distort what is being said. When the FACTS are the opposite. There is no magic or witchcraft. Its specific techniques being used by Byron Katie at her seminars. So again, its a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anticult, I didn't say it wasn't damaging. I said I didn't know whether they were damaging. I said the book was helpful for me. [...] I'm not saying that anything about her organization because I don't know. Stoic, from what I read makes a pretty clear case. As I said, I'm not interested in Large group (LGATs). [...] """Then moving into a defens
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""Carrying the burden of 'saving the world' or 'evolving to a higher plane to help all beings' has to be the epitome of utterly impossible unreachable goals. Which is helpful for the cult leader as it gives him endless leeway to keep moving the goal posts. The initiate will never be good enough and the cult leader has a follower forever--or at least until the p
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

""""With regard to subjective experience, I would like to make the point that there is a percentage of people who are, for whatever reason, unable to feel empathy with others. They are able to acknowledge feelings in themselves but not accord that same capacity to others. It is estimated that approximately 10% of any given population has this lack. In neuroscience this is
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""Bottom line, its not credible that Kassy is not totally indocrinated into the BKI system. Its not believable. To someone who has seen the LGAT people operate for ages, its very obvious what is being done. This is the tough thing about dealing with these LGAT seminar companies. The people who promote them and work at them, are very motivated, and they are often very clever,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

""""Yeah, the School sounds stupid. I don't know how harmful it is though." ------------ That comment by "Kassy" actually exposes her/his agenda very clearly. First off, here is a person who is running massive apologetics and misdirection for the Byron Katie business, and they claim to have NOT even attended the Byron Katie 9-day LGAT seminar? I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Christa, first off some parts of your response were thoughtful. However, I wonder about a few of the things you write. The one that really struck out at me was """First, the persuasion systems Katie uses are invisible to the uninformed, so your representations that you've made a free will choice cannot be relied on. """ What do you mean by invisible to t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""""APA" is a "cult"? Very bizarre claim, which makes you seem somewhat like a Scientologist denouncing the mental health profession. You appear to consistently value subjective experience above objective reality in your long posts defending Katie. """" I don't deny objective reality, I deny that subjective experience is
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"'"The Byron Katie professional internet marketing machine, is going to try and turn up the volume. Its obvious that the analysis of Byron Katie is starting to get through to people, so they are going to try and blowback against the analysis of her persuasion methods. Once the Byron Katie people can see even a TINY bit of the persuasion methods being used on them, it really mes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""It seems like many LGAT (large group awareness training) participants you put too much weight upon subjective experience. However, something more than anecdotal evidence is needed to validate the claims made by LGATs.""" I think this is fine if you want to do an objective study on different things to say how they work, or if they don't work and then pu
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""You seem to be here to spam the board with apologies for Byron Katie. Like Ms. Katie though, you lack the credentials to comment with any credibility regarding psychological, emotional issues. It seems like many LGAT (large group awareness training) participants you put too much weight upon subjective experience. However, something more than anecdotal evidence is nee
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From guruphiliac: (I thought this sums it up) Exactly my perspective but I still like Byron Katie herself and her teachings. Saturday, February 23, 2008 Byron Katie Is Either Going To Enlighten You Or Kill You Trying File under: The Siddhi of PR We've never felt much impetus to go after Byron Katie. Good friends are close to her, and all in all, she's not trying to be the fon
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yeah, the School sounds stupid. I don't know how harmful it is though.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anticult, I read the liability. There's nothing wrong with that. That makes perfect sense. Why should they be liable for those things? I wouldn't go to a seminar for medical treatment, or mental health medical treatment. That's the thing psychiatry, and psychology have not driven spirituality and wisdom to being obsolete. Byron Katie is writing, and talking about wisdom, and c
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To Anticult, first I am not a True Believe or a Coach. My primary means of spiritual practice is Advaitic Self-inquiry which is similar. But I'm not a devotee of Byron Katie. I am impressed with her teachings and writings and what I've seen of her on Youtube. I have no intention of joining any organization. So I'm speaking as a free agent, and outsider. """well,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""Janaki in her very informative blog has touched upon this possibility - see "Downsides of The Work""". Most of what Janaki notices and points out makes sense to me, but then again, this is how humans are when they get in organizations with eachother. But the actual method, the one detailed in Loving What Is, seems like simple common sense. So, that people
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""BTW--Substituting Katie for legitimate professional counseling and therapy is your choice to make, but a more safe approach generally accepted approach for the treatment of personal psychological or emotional problems would be seeking help from a certified, credentialed therapist/doctor. In most states such treatment from helping professionals is overseen by boards, professi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"""In point of fact BK did not think up these ideas, they were tools that have been recorded as in use in antiquity and were probably ancient then. BK has simply packaged these ideas for a new generation that does not have much knowledge or interest in the history of mankind and systems of thought. From my POV the basic ideas BK is presenting so persuasively are not the problem
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

helpme2times, I agree I think being critical and questioning other people's thinking is good, so i welcome it. And while critical of what I'm saying you still asked good questions I'll try to answer them as best I can from my own understanding. """"To say that a tantrum is useless is an interesting thought, but one I take issue with. I think that part of bein
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Under no cirumstances should a person ever use the so-called Work from Byron Katie on these serious issues. Why? Read the disclaimers you are forced to sign. When things go bad, and you get hurt, tough shit for you. Its almost unbelievable that there are people who shill and promote the Byron Katie "Work" for trauma and PTSD, but when anyone reads their disclaimers, all they d
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Interesting observations: Positive thinking actually preserves secretive power structures, whether political, pseudospiritual, or entreprenuerial, from scrutiny. Positive thinking is anti liberty. The American Revolution was started by grouches who were aware of the negative uses of power, not by positive thinkers. The checks and balances in the Constitution were written by peop
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Now, imagine someone coming in with the kind of background given by Eckhart Tolle (depression, sudden enlightenment, bliss on a park bench) or BK (depression, half way house, cockroach sudden enlightement)..and then walking in and asking that guy for a barista job. He'd probably shake his head. And that fellow isnt being a mean guy. He's going to be entrusting that barista
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

When I've watched clips of Byron Katie, the way she uses the four questions and turn-around seems to be mature. Infact with the turn-around, she said the first questions come first, because otherwise it will seem harsh and self-judgemental. The purpose of the turn-around in my own experience is to create doubt in habitual thinking. As, what is true needs no justification or rationalization.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"