Quotecorboy Arguing at other persons means treating others not as persons but as walls to be battered down and the materials incorporated into ones own Mighty Fortress This is fundamental Science of Identity Foundation. A person's Identity is said to be entirely false. Everybody depersonalizes themselves and others. Breaking someone's ego down is helping them. Rather than a persona
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Reading the Oakes quote I had a flashback, anxiety attack, regression, anxiety attack. Mortal fear of "demon" literature. It's been a few years since I deprogrammed. I think I should buy that book. I love your post. It's line for line accurate. Butler would almost entirely agree. Only he puts a different spin on it. With a less "harmful" more "guru's dut
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I wanted to expand a little on the above post: Butler has almost four decades experience of guiding and mentoring cult political candidates. His speaking lectures and books are actually more like political speeches and propanganda. While this is not professional diagnosis, he also has an almost borderline hyper-aware theory of mind, where he is able to see the proverbial splinter in his neighb
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy that was an excellent analysis. Very evocative imagery. On the topic of disorientating new recruits there's also a new culture, an unfamiliar language (sanskrit, Chris Butler speak), a new and strange eastern religion. It's a fascinating and highly confusing environment. Being from a western country it's all completely out of your world. It's difficult for most p
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteBestLifeI am not here to promote Byron Katie or The Work... ...but here's another plug. QuoteBestLifeAnd I could be very wrong. rrmoderator: This person is just promoting Byron Katie's work via dubious anecdotal evidence and has also preached in their first two posts.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteGratefulRageIt doesn't matter if Byron Katie tells a survivor of incest that she complied with the act; GratefulRage: This is a twisted idea and, as you are obviously aware, is formulated by someone with absolutely no expertise in this area. Survivors of incest and other forms of sexual abuse often learn to blame themselves for their perpetrators actions. Reinforcing this self bl
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Gratefulrage: You describe Byron Katie and her cronies as spiritual hustlers who use techniques from every cult and lgat organization, but you keep promoting her inquiry method as immune from this. 'The Work' IS the main recruitment/thought reform method. Even if you truly believed that the work is in anyway helpful, logic would suggest you don't go to a cult forum to re
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Very interesting read Helpme. Most people would feel ridiculous claiming they purchased a rival scriptwriting software co's domain name due to computer error. But there you go, Steven Sashen surpasses expectations. Sashen being a kyudo zen teacher in colorado is interesting given the amount of zen connections to Byron Katie. However I couldn't find anything specific about it. I d
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Concerns: Perhaps you would like to talk about the issues with your daughter as personal stories about members and their families are infinitely more valuable than discussing a bogus website. If anyone had been following this thread, the site mentioned has already been exposed for presenting fabricated information. As previously stated the only verifiable information on the site turned out
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Great post Helpme. What a sleazebag. How Zen?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotehelpme2timesMaybe I made the error because I am so used to skimming Byron Katie written material, so that I won't feel like I am about to fall into a spell from the hypnotic writing. (That is my definite experience of her writing.) You're not alone there. I skim too. I actually had to debrief myself a few times when she had my head spinning. And, for the most part, it's
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteThe AnticultQ. How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought? A. I feel great, accurate knowledge is wonderful Ha ha! These non-duality people believe all thoughts are untrue. "And that is that all thoughts are untrue. Even the ones that have a semblance of truth, such as 2+2=4, are still not true. Oh, sure, 2+2=4 is useful, but even a “law” of nature could c
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Stuart Resnik has finally attempted to dispel his connection to Stephen Mitchell and tries to sound ignorant of how the connection developed. He fails to mention that Stephen Mitchell was one of the closest disciples of Seung Sahn (from 1973-1989) who founded the Kwan Um School of Zen of which Resnick is now a senior Dharma Teacher. From the RandomStu blog we learn of a fellow yale graduate an
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I don't get it. Isn't it like McDonald's advertising Burger King to have all these void guys cross-promoting one another?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I've been looking at archived copies of thework.com on the Wayback Machine. The site from 1998 to late 2000 remained the same design. Prior to october 2000 an overight stay at The Center in Barstow was only $25 to cover costs. In october 2000 at the time she met Stephen Mitchell thework.com was completely redesigned, the school became much more professional and Mitchell's name be
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It's funny how easily he goes from "Deep despair" to "My father definitely should have died". It's anything but organic. He is an ex-used car salesman turned guru and off his medication. I'm not sure if that is a great selling point. Oh God, it's a whole network of internet gurus. Scott Kiloby, take your own advice: "Your Spiritual Teacher I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy the article about Rosenman's study is amazing. You can see this behavior in Byron Katie stories even prior to the halfway house awakening. Her children were put in the mothering role and, while it becomes clear they were facing some serious issues themselves, Katie's mental problems took total precedence. Her daughter for example claims she found it necessary to carry a knife for
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I don't know if this is helpful but I found Charlie Hayes on youtube doing "The Work" with Byron Katie. "Thank you for dying on time"
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Blame the Victim : Pity the Perpetrator While Byron Katie says tortured jewish people in concertration camps and sexual abuse victims are to blame/responsible for their own actions and victimization and are free to choose between punishment and obedience, here's what she has to say about perpetrators: "Our Innocence" They're innocent! Clearly they had no choice! Zer
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks Corboy for putting BK's comments into a factual perspective. Well said! I put the question mark after jewish because it really sounds like she says jewishian. She may have said "a jewish in a camp full of nazis" but it doesn't sound right using an adjective as a noun. I was hoping someone could offer an opinion. Otherwise she might think jewish people are Jewishians
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I have been putting her philosophy together slowly which I will try to relay as I understand it: To use another example, in a child sexual abuse situation, she turns the abuse into an act of compliance by the victim. Where is the choice in this instance? No one unless they were at breaking point would resist something as trivial as cleaning garbage if they had a gun pointed at their head. She
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Recently on youtube someone posted a Byron Katie video titled "Living in Scare-City": Katie expands on her ideas about victims, nazis, identity and altruism and shows what a truly alternate universe BK followers live in. Firstly her nazi quote: "So a Jewish (?) camp full of Nazis and they want me to clean up the garbage. I am free. I do not have to do it. I'm free.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

On the Release of Liability form it says: "The School is an educational program. It is not therapeutic in design, intent or methodology and is not a substitute for medical treatment, psychotherapy, or any health program, regardless of what you may have heard from anyone." However, on every page of thework.com, there is the following endorsement purportedly from Stanford Universit
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"The Work" definitely works... If you forget everything Byron Katie has said, rewrite the questions and reinvent how you apply them to a given situation. Have you noticed that Katie apologists say the work is a great tool but suggest you use it casually? That is not actually what the work is though. They know it's BS. If her followers ask *can I absolutely know it is true?* o
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well Anticult, I agree that criticizing Erickson is not directly related to this thread and I am surprized that you haven't started a specific thread on Erickson. I say 'you' as you obviously have vast knowledge in this area. Not that you should be required to as I'm not sure how much time that would require. We will have to agree to disagree on whether Erickson was a great
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It is not clear from Haley as to whether the golfer existed or not, although he seems to have meant it that way. I've also seen this story/case refered to as a tale. Reading Erickson he suggests that he did hypnotize people to do unusual acts, like climb a mountain or a guy he instructed to drive out of town and lie in a ditch when he felt tired. Whether they are true or not he obviously
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy, Clearly the zen stick is a significant aspect of zen. The zen master in some traditions will hit people with sticks for meditation purposes. I'm not sure how many do or don't. Don't you think that could be an easier explanation as to why so many zen stories involve hitting people with sticks? "Practitioners may request not to be hit." I'm glad that is a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anticult, I found out the quotes about the golfer are not from Zeig. Zeig met Erickson in '73. They are actually from Jay Haley, Erickson's long-time student, who first introduced Erickson to the world. Haley wrote Uncommon Therapy: the psychiatric techniques of Milton H. Erickson in 1973 and spoke at the First International Congress on Ericksonian Approaches in 1980. Erickson died
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Why do these zen stories so often involve someone getting hit by a stick? You know Gregory Bateson was interested in zen. What is Milton Erickson's connection to zen? The Evolution of Psychotherapy by Jeffrey K. Zeig: The ideas of Zen influenced me in the 1950s when I was developing a therapy approach and doing research on the nature of therapy. For ten years, I was a member of Gr
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Heh! I went to the wrong forum. Well, it was an eventful detour. I'm not sure what bogus BK certification is. Marelin Thorton (aka Madame Snakeoil) does offer The Work and mentions Byron Katie seperately on her site. Is she not a facilitator? Why do you think she runs a BK forum? Could it be she was a facilitator and was deleted like Janaki and so (jumping ahead here) she runs a forum to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"