"I have no doubt that the followers of Chris Butler will try to prevent this information from getting out by any means necessary. They know I am presenting the truth. They also feel they have a divine mission to stop the "blasphemy" of their guru. I can not imagine any other motivation. If you feel that these documents are not important or irrelevant to the purpose of this forum, t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Vera: "Jagad Guru was well aware of cults and deprogrammers as far back as the 1970’s. He discussed them frequently in the wake of Jonestown and had several books on the subject. No doubt he was learning and adapting." Very interesting that you bring up this point. Zelig: "CB also mentions on one of his tapes BF Skinner -- look him up. I am sure CB was studying mind control
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

We have recovered Mike Gabbard's Stop Promoting Homosexuality International site from the internet archive. Fortunately the full site was still available after several years. Another person pretending not to be a member of SoI. It's interesting that in the last decade there has actually only been a handful of individuals who openly admit to being a member. All these internat
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

So anyway, Zeuszor, are you going to tell us who the mystery man is? There is quite a resemblance to Satsvarupa a third of a century on, but I can see they are not the same person now. There is a book on the site called "Jesus Loves Krishna". The cover was recovered from the net with the same cover design as yours but an alternate title. Since you are having net troubles perha
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

[...] Chris Butler has also used progressive hypnosis under various psuedonyms for many decades. More recently it has been defined as 'relaxation'. The added hours of individual/group chanting were part of the brainwashing and not just for atmospheric social purposes. Not to mention that [...] he targeted LSD-influenced youths who were already in an altered state of consciousness, ri
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That is Satsvarupa dasa Goswami right? And is that you with the bead bag next to the tulasi plant? If you know what I mean..
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Vera: "It was your visual archive that inspired me to post these documents here in spite of the some of the flak I've caught for it." You haven't once received flak for posting these documents. This is just more of your rhetorical bs. The use of the words "giving over our selves" is again a subtle hint at your "willing participants" concept. You can&
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You can't be straight can you? You didn't respond to the question of 'willing accomplices' and yet the three new categorizations become more clearer as to your real point of view: 1. Those who are "willing" to rationalize their time and money away. 2. The enforcers (previously defined as those who can rationalize abuses) 3. And those become complicit by know
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Vera, this is treading a little close to Zelig's "cult members are to blame for their own predicament" line. You are also giving conflicting messages regarding the 'true believers' ("mind fucked" you say) and those who are willing accomplices or cooperators. After a year of studying this cult I have come to the conclusion that there are those who follow beca
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Don't be bashful. If you don't know what they did with the water, the senior disciples drank it, and distributed it amongst the other followers openly or covertly. It is highly auspicious within ISKCON to drink this water, as Bhaktivedanta wrote: ----------------------- "The dust of the feet of a devotee, the water that has washed the feet of a devotee, and the remnants of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well since my link wasn't read last time I'll post the actual story: He told the story of a guru who meditated day and night. He meditated so long and hard that he attained the highest Brahman realization. The problem was that he remained in the lotus position for so many years that his arm and leg muscles atrophied and locked into position. He was totally helpless and at the mercy o
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Great Story. Yes you are correct Initiate/Zelig told this story aswell.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I am in no way in control of what is and what is not posted on that site. Nor do I want to be. I have played third fiddle on that site on much of the decision making and have been extremely honored to be a part of it. But you were not exactly innocent in this Rick regarding certain opinions that were formed about you. You employ yourself in moderating a large number of threads on this forum
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ah no V. I posted on the COB forum that I dislike the fact that previously banned members can come back here under new identities which i've said directly to Rick aswell. I thought you might suggest that the post was somehow influenced by Zelig though, which is what you are implying isn't it? Your uncertainty is showing like it always does zelig. I think there needs to be some me
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Rick Ross, Would you care to offer your position on Zelig/Vera, whether that is; you don't believe that they are the same person; or you are not concerned or would not be concerned that they are the same person? You have not made this point clear and that might be a useful piece of information at this point.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To spell it out exactly for you Rick I've split their posts up to the exact similarities. You certainly make me work but I am very persistent. Vera = The original school had a fundamentals curriculum ("the three R's" Reading, Riting, Rithmatic =) with some basic philosophy; Zelig = the reading and writing contained both secular material as well as Krishna stories.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anyway. On Mike Gabbard. It is interesting this theory of everyone having different experiences. Back when Initiate joined, two days later Devadasi joined and the two engaged in a back and forth confirming each others posts. Devadasi was in the cult the same period as Initiate (73-mid 80s) so the two had a lot in common. After Initiate was banned Devadasi asked the question when discuss
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Good one Googs. But Cara would never be bothered to go through all your posts like that. She doesn't have the patience for information that is not relevant to anything. That's my perfectionism playing up. I go overboard sometimes. Nice try. In your defense though you've probably run out of unique things to say about the cult after three years on here right? Since you like humor
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yeah the trolls have gotten much more savy to your rules over the years. You took a couple of times convincing the last time he disappeared aswell. Zelig initially was arduously arguing that brainwashing did not exist remember. A month or two after you banned him for this and he came back claiming that he had just found this forum and brainwashing was now a true phenomena. When you banned him
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I realize that Rick. Let me put it this way. You have mentioned for yourself many times the amount of trolls that posted on this thread. There were those you have banned that re-registered and were banned again. You may not be entirely familiar with the SoI cult so here is an explanation: Have you ever noticed On any other thread on this forum Or any other forum on the internet That pe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Rick, I just posted facts that members on your forum have made endless posts not related to SoI in order to discourage this practice. You then reprimand me for pointing this out as it is not related to SoI. That doesn't make a lot of sense.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Not to single dassi out but let's look at Googlings performance over 6 months prior to this latest documents phase: March 26 - talks about Bob Dylan March 24 - Writes a song March 18 - Claims that Soi members are indoctrinated into anti-homosexuality, and indoctrinated into believing they are great. They watch TV become influenced and start their involvement in politics - Non sens
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yeah dassi has provided much valuable info. Here is a run down of her time on this thread. March 21 You introduce breifly yourself, you like indian food and were in a cult. March 23 list of greetings to your friends in the cult March 23 Vague discussion of guilt you felt in the cult March 25 Vague disconnected recollection of your time in the cult March 25 Short vague comment about
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I agree, why make trouble where there really is none? I just answered this question dassi if you can read. You have not offered on piece of information that is actually useful in over a year and a half despite your prolonged time in the cult. Unbelievable right. Oh except you did remind me about the "peg-legged chick" (your words) who is suggested to be Panca-tattva dasi although
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I've had to challenge many SoI members on the lies they have told me. Why should I not question the information you are offering here V? Because you've taken a stance against the cult? The cultofbutler site is only interested in facts and if you are spreading false information then it is likely that I am going to challenge you on it. I offered my reasons as an ex-follower as to why your
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Vera, the Valley Isle was started in 1977 during the Independents for Godly Government project. It would make sense that the papers were started to promote the IGG candidates while covertly being the same cult running them. The Valley Isle was sued by Lehau in 1978 and according to Rick Reed's eulogy on mikegabbard.info he met marsland in 1979 while still running the Valley Isle. He and Mars
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Again ok Vera City you are a liar you make accusations and have no way to back them up. Period. What happened to the once banned always banned rule Rick? Just as a final word to Zelig and friends when I mentioned I backtracked the image I went into the account which Mr Make Information as widely as possible on the internet has since locked and copied all the files there. There were 164 i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

i know that the tendency on this forum is to get current members out and that condemnation is based on not pandering to that enough. What you fail to realise is that people can see from such documents that something is a destructive cult - but they cannot see this from meditation centers, particualarly those presenting themselves as polytheist or Christian which is how SoI works today. People
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteVera CityYou do not have proprietary rights on exposing this or any other cult. Please play nice here. Don't make a hypcrite of yourself now. Just like Chris Butler you are making assertions that information is not true and yet you are not providing any example of this. Specify what is not true or keep your opinions to yourself. I know about the campaign here of anonymous cowards
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Right so the story goes Mike Gabbard was working in Samoa in 1983. He decides to move his family to Hawaii and in all this chaos he stumbles across a SoI member (or decides to go to a meditation center) and one thing leads to another and he becomes a disciple of Chris Butler. Mid-year he, Carol Gabbard and Carter Reed get together, and whoever else, and start to plan a school. It gets to the stag
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"