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7 months ago
kdag
Okay, I will add a little something here, (it's been bugging me). Most of this is over my head. I have no degree in psychology. Neither do the people running these LGATs. From the article: "Gottschalk and Pattison isolated 13 liabilities of encounter groups, some of which are similar to characteristics of most current mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions: They lack
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
1 year ago
kdag
I can give a hypothetical example. Going back to the waiver form on this thread: "I hereby indemnify and hold Landmark Education, its officers, managers, shareholders, affiliates, employees, agents and/or people who assist, harmless from all loss, cost, obligation or damage arising out of my participation in the Programme or in other activities or events related to the Programme.&quo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
1 year ago
ajinajan
newfuture Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just found a form that's used to sign people up > for the forum. > > It's the first time I have sat down and really > looked at their health warning. And I am further > 100% convinced that these people know what damage > they are inflicting on people and simply do not > give a da
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
2 years ago
kdag
I find it most irritating that they fancy themselves as the "wise philosophers" who will bring the world into some kind of "golden age," yet any society ruled by people of their ilk, (people who would harrass, violate privacy and stalk anyone who disagrees), would not be a society that most would wish to live in. You know what they say- "garbage in; garbage out."
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
2 years ago
kdag
When a former friend recruited me into doing the Landmark Forum, I was reluctant. Her argument was "It's $500 and a weekend. What have you got to lose?" She was so invested in my doing the Forum that she paid over half of my tuition. The way that it was presented to me, it was something to try, with no further obligation or strings attached. There seemed to be very little risk
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
2 years ago
kdag
The really dirty thing about this, and about the girl in the original post, (the one duped by Cohen), is that it all turns on ASSUMPTIONS. Cohen knew that she would ASSUME that he had her back, so she just read what was put in front of her. Landmark advertises that they will empower us, help us think outside the box, and so we sign up for the Forum ASSUMING that this is what we are going to g
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
3 years ago
kdag
Freda_Last, As to how they get by with it, I will try to follow some of the logic of how they get around things legally, (this is only a layman's guess) : 1) Although there are laws against deceptive advertising, they don't publicly advertise, per se. Instead, they train participants to do their advertising. In Landmark,  these participants, (many who sat at phone banks for hours
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
3 years ago
kdag
The other part if this is informed consent. Someone else posted some time ago, (in fact there have been several posts like this), about hypnotic induction in an LGAT, and how the leader was describing what is happening in the mind during hypnosis AS he is doing this, but not informing participants that he was doing it. I had some kind of soundtrack used on me, again without any kind of cons
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
3 years ago
kdag
In a very late response to the first post on his thread: "Note they even ask you what you intend to accomplish and then tell you that there is no suggestion or guarantee that you will get those results! Hilarious." They have NO intention that you will get those results. It's pure bait and switch. This is demonstrated by the fact that one of their assignments plainly acknowle
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
3 years ago
corboy
A person who passed through a very intense Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) has written an informative essay which can be read here. Some articles about LGATS here. The two earliest LGATS was est (known today as Landmark Education). All other LGATs incorporate some features of est/Landmark. an Lifespring wss one of the first of the derivative LGATS. Listing of LGATs and their founders
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
3 years ago
corboy
A little something about Landmark and the waiver form. Mr. Ross was offered the opportunity to do the LEC seminar. He said he was willing - but refused to sign the waiver form. QuoteLandmark doesn't like being linked to EST even though it largely lionizes Erhard with rather "cult-like" devotion. Landmark's legal defeat must be both personally and professionally pain
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
4 years ago
corboy
QuotePosted by: The Anticult () Date: June 25, 2010 10:21AM By the way, this process can be very effective when an aquaintance or "friend" is pestering you about attending the LGAT seminar they are involved with. (PSI, Landmark, Byron Katie, MKP...) The "friend" repeatedly asks you to attend _____ LGAT seminar, as it "changed their life", as they are progr
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
4 years ago
kdag
@ Gloria, this was in 2008. I think this was mostly the forum, and some for the advanced course. They do make an exception if you cancel for a medical reason. @ corboy and The Anticult ~ thank you for the additional info. I remember the waiver form, and also how my so-called friend told me to ignore it. As it was pointed out, you cannot give informed consent, because they don't tell
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
4 years ago
corboy
Just to give credit where credit is due, the bit about "buyers remorse" is from an earlier contributor, The Anticult. TAC spent some years on the message board and provided expertise on covert (unethical) trance induction, briefed us on methods of sales pressure. One of the most important things TAC taught us was to look at the waiver forms typically used by LGATs. You b
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
4 years ago
rrmoderator
Blurb: Excuse me. There is a company called Gratitude Cafe that supports Landmark Education programs for its employees. There should be no confusion between the LGAT "Gratitude" and the Gratitude Cafe that supports Landmark. You say, "Gratitude is simply the MOST EFFECTIVE approach that they've personally encountered among a wide range of options." How do you p
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
4 years ago
rrmoderator
To whom it may concern: LGATs (large group awareness training) like Gratitude is in business to essentially sell the philosophy of the LGAT leader or owner. Most LGATs around today copy other LGATs. The most established and successful LGAT is probably Landmark Education, formerly known as EST (Erhard Seminar Training) founded by Werner Erhard. See Landmark, which claims to provide its p
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
6 years ago
The Anticult
and that is another sad example of a writer who is completely unable to "investigate" OneTaste as the Gawker article claims. (of course Gawker is doing it simply for 'clicks' for their business). One has to wonder, why only people with absolutely no experience and no training in the new "persuasion techniques" write these pieces on OneTaste, and other groups like
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
corboy
How to evaluate any recommended workshop especially if it is a multi day event. One way to ID a potential LGAT without going through one, is to see whether they require potential subjects to sign two types of paperwork: A nondisclosure contract promising they will not tell anyone what the process is. This makes it impossible for a potential subject to make an adult informed decision.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
7 years ago
corboy
Sample release of liability forms from other groups. If you have to sign paperwork to participate in any LGAT *pause* and look carefully. Ignore pressure to sign without reading it. Better yet, insist on taking it home. This paperwork should be given to people before registration, not while they're at the beginning of the seminar, signing in. Anything or anyone telling you to take r
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
7 years ago
newfuture
Just found a form that's used to sign people up for the forum. It's the first time I have sat down and really looked at their health warning. And I am further 100% convinced that these people know what damage they are inflicting on people and simply do not give a damn. Note they even ask you what you intend to accomplish and then tell you that there is no suggestion or guarantee
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
8 years ago
corboy
Before participation, are you required to sign a release of liability form in which you sign away your citizen/resident alien rights to sue or mediate for damages in case you incur harm as a result of participating in that weekend? Here are examples of release of liability forms, used by other LGATs. Does Mankind project have any form resembing this? If you signed such a form, you may feel
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
8 years ago
corboy
QuoteWhen I took my first training, the cost was $3000 US, plus the cost of time off work and child care. You took your first training. How many additional trainings did you take? What do you estimate was the total cost in dollars? QuoteRegarding therapeutic risks and consequences, when I was a teacher with the Institute, the organization was diligent about waivers from treating physici
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
8 years ago
caligari
Grub Street food news investigated more into the Cafe Gratitude closures, =========== A New Side of the Café Gratitude Closure Story, and Their Potentially Shady ‘Sacred Commerce’ 11/29/11 at 2:40 PM 21Comments After learning earlier today that Café Gratitude was looking to sell their eight northern California restaurants because of some "aggressive lawsuits" they couldn
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
8 years ago
ROZZANNE
INFORMATION RECEIVED from a FORMER FOLLOWER of MITCH J BEHAN: the FOUNDER/OWNER of MJB SEMINARS AUSTRALIA . EQUILIBRATION FORM I found the equilibration form I mentioned. When MJB first introduce this process to their students they take them through it verbally. In the second seminar "Letting it go" they give it out on paper. You are not meant to share it with anyone becau
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
9 years ago
rrmoderator
sarina286: Your post reads like an ad for this company and its products. "Don't knock it, until you've done it and stuck it out until the end"? Hardly. You don't have to drive drunk or smoke ciggarettes to know its not a good thing. Research matters. And anyone considering buying a product, such a s a training seminar, can do a background check before
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
9 years ago
rrmoderator
sarina286: Your post reads like an ad for this company and its products. "Don't knock it, until you've done it and stuck it out until the end"? Hardly. You don't have to drive drunk or smoke ciggarettes to know its not a good thing. Research matters. And anyone considering buying a product, such a s a training seminar, can do a background check before
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
9 years ago
rrmoderator
sarina286: Your post reads like an ad for this company and its products. "Don't knock it, until you've done it and stuck it out until the end"? Hardly. You don't have to drive drunk or smoke ciggarettes to know its not a good thing. Research matters. And anyone considering buying a product, such a s a training seminar, can do a background check before
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
9 years ago
rrmoderator
sarina286: Your post reads like an ad for this company and its products. "Don't knock it, until you've done it and stuck it out until the end"? Hardly. You don't have to drive drunk or smoke ciggarettes to know its not a good thing. Research matters. And anyone considering buying a product, such a s a training seminar, can do a background check before layin
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
9 years ago
reptar
QuoteThe AnticultThe argument from "authority" is invalid. Many psychologists are totally naive about these complex business schemes, they sometimes don't have "street smarts" and Werner Erhard could easily dupe them. Many MD's are targets for con-artists for that reason. If the letter is confusing, that sounds like Landmark, they are experts in confusion. Ev
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
9 years ago
The Anticult
The argument from "authority" is invalid. Many psychologists are totally naive about these complex business schemes, they sometimes don't have "street smarts" and Werner Erhard could easily dupe them. Many MD's are targets for con-artists for that reason. If the letter is confusing, that sounds like Landmark, they are experts in confusion. Every LGAT persuasi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
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