jj, thx for the fascinating info. for what its worth, often just posting/writing can help a person get their own thoughts-voice back, over time. I think you are right on the money when you say Byron Katie gets people to doubt all of their own thinking, so then she can take over. Its very dangerous to start doubting all of your own thinking. What else do we have in life? I can't express
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Wow! I really appreciate that post, corboy. I was asked to come join this thread after posting earlier today in the LGAT forum under "Byron Katie and The Work/serious concerns." You can read my post here: Or click here, and hopefully the link works. I've read through this discussion, and ralpher appears to be gone... But I just wanted to clarify. I've been to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here is the direct link to the other Byron Katie thread. Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit?? and here is a search of this forum for Byron Katie to catch any other posts and threads. Thanks for bringing this thread up, as I had not seen it. The weird thing about these groups, is that even though the Leader may appear to be a flake, someone very very sane and savvy is r
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

(Pause for Station Identification) Found some items for continuing education for those interested. They can be applied to many situations, far beyond RR.com. What follows is copied from the website Butterflies and Wheels in an article on rhetoric: -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Woolly-Thinker's Guide to Rhetoric Be Courageous
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

These guys never provide any proof for anything...they are too smart for that. That could get them in trouble. What they do is tell vague STORIES. They all do the same thing. Eckhart Tolle: says he was miserable, then became Enlightened, so BUY his products to be Happy like him. Byron Katie: miserable and depressed, attained Enlightenment, BUY her stuff to be happy like she is now 24/7.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Is there any proof at all to substantiate Katie's story? The mental ward she was locked in? (Or was it an attic?). Anything?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher has shown the logical-fallacies and methods of those who are shilling for Byron Katie. Ralpher is following the Byron Katie internet playbook, so it does show how they operate, so does that have some value? ----------------------- Looking more into Byron Katie, its actually more disturbing than at first glance. What moves her from simply a New Age money-maker into a type of culty-G
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yeah, he's been messaging me too. I think the apologist are actually very important to this board, however. Vital, actually. So I guess it's up to you as moderator to decide when to draw the line. I think if someone is doing nothing but posting press releases for some guru or LGAT, it makes sense to ban them. But if they're arguing or debating perhaps it does seem unfair to cens
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To whom it may concern: It seems ralpher may be abusing the private messaging system. He is now very close to being banned from this message board. If anyone sees any value in approving his rants and/or attacks let me know, but it doesn't seem to me that he has anything of much value to offer at this point. Chanting his guru various slogans and mantras over and over again and att
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here's the deal with Byron Katie. She is a businesswoman and entrepreneur, in partnership with the hubby co-writer. She is a very good salesperson, and manipulative persuader. She claims to have be suicidal for years, and then one day attained Enlightenment by her Magic Technique. that's her STORY. Her technique is exactly the false ideas being thrown around in this thread, based
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy, Your description of the cell phones going off on the dead victims of the Israeli bomb attack gave me chills all over. God, what a horrible image. I have many relatives in Israel, one beautiful young cousin who almost lost his eye recently to shrapnel. He's a soldier. There is another thread somewhere that talks about the "power of negative thinking" and people interes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Whoa boy! I just read this one from Ralpher: Since ideas can't hurt people, all of these gurus are well within their rights to sell their stuff. It's a business to them, in addition to being a nice way to spend their time, and downright helpful a lot of the time to some of the people. Okay, take one BIG mo'foing step back right now, Ralpher, I think we found the error muy gra
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Our local Byron Katie promoter's comments about 'science' are totally false. One does wonder if that disinformation come right from Byron Katie herself? But the only thing our Byron Katie promoter said about the world of the New Age Teachers that I agree with was this... _________________________ 1. Keep the money you have. 2. Take others' away. ___________________
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

No, I"m not going to stop posting, I'm just not going to continue engaging with Ralpher. It's interesting how I'm not supposed to judge Byron Katie, I'm not supposed to judge him, I'm not supposed to feel we can "know" anything. Sometimes I wonder why the good lord dun give me a brain 'tween my ears! Of course I was giving Ralpher the benefit of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

vlinden: Remember that the purpose of an Internet troll is often to subvert a thread, e.g. chase people off. Don't allow ralpher to do that if you are interested in this topic.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: Some of your posts have not been approved because they are little more than flames. See the rules. Be honest, you are here on a mission, not so much for any meaningful exchange of ideas, but rather as a defender of Katie. Can you think of anything wrong with Byron Katie?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That's fine with me dude, sayonara. But take this with you: it is absolutely abusive, in any form of relationship, to insist that you know what is in someone's head better than they do. To insist that they aren't being honest, or know something that you know, without checking it out, asking them, is truly to abuse. So who is being more abusive, Byron Katie on that tape, when
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And finally, my response to the flower incident: Byron Katie was possibly challenging the woman to say why she should react differently from the flower. That could have led to an interesting exchange, and then we'd know much more about what BK meant. Unfortunately, the woman on camera did not pick up the point, and so we can't really know what she meant by it. She might have meant to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The thing with the Israelian woman is, Byron did not ask her if she was 100% sure that a bomb was going to be dropped on her or if her feelings were realistic. Byron asked if the woman was 100% sure that she was afraid of war. Of course she was sure of what she felt. Convincing people that they do not feel what they feel, don't want what they want, don't think what they think can cause
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You guys are playing God. Are you enjoying yourselves? Your position boils down to: no one should say the things that these people are saying, because they're not true and no one should have to listen to things that are not true. Since when do we need to be protected from what people say? This country was founded on two principles: 1. Keep the money you have. 2. Take others
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

yes vlinden, all the analysis really comes down to basics. In terms of the Big Name New Agers, without exception its about the money. They may delude themselves on some-level, but most of them know what they are doing is a con-game. Its about the money. Money is very important, it pays their bills, mortgage, cars, trips, islands, planes, jewels... They freaking love that Big Easy Money.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anti-Cult Thanks, I was going to say all of that but didn't have the energy. See, this is my point, where is the poison hidden? Someone without the knowledge base might accept Ralphers statement as fact without verification. The New Age is just ridden with people making these kinds of pronouncements, false statements so dramatic that they pass as wisdom to those who don't know bet
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Actually, It's Popper, who you quote yourself, who argues that science can't verify. Einstein has never been, and never will be, verified. We will accept his work, provisionally, until someone does refute it. Remember Newton? And yes, the person--or computer--that does refute a key element of Einstein's thinking will win the nobel prize, if we haven't all drowned by the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Actually, that is Epistemology. It is correct that in philosophy of science nothing can be known to be 100% true with Certitude. But its false to say we can't verify, and only refute. That is a mental-con and false-statement. Is that from Byron Katie? Science is based on both falsification and verification. Einstein's Relativity has been VERIFIED thousands of times, and NEVER
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher, It's interesting that you managed two long responses to me without once addressing the question I asked about the vase of flowers, and without addressing what I considered to be the most important problems with Byron Katie. This dissuades me from dealing with your responses piece by piece. Plus I don't have much time right now, and I think you're pretty sold on Byron a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And one more thing, Linden: You say: " The issue isn't whether we should ask ourselves questions, or question our own beliefs, motives, patterning, etc." Actually, that's exactly the issue. Questions are the most significant phenomena--in addition to a good laugh--that makes us human. They are our most powerful tool. Perhaps the most powerful tool of all i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for being open enough to ask a question--if you really mean it as a question. I'm going to treat it as one. What kind of logic is necessary? Well, I think that the most important logical, rational tool is the one tries to find the meanings that are intended by the speaker. Perhaps the most important such tool is sometimes called the principle of charity: you attribute a meaning to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The issue isn't whether we should ask ourselves questions, or question our own beliefs, motives, patterning, etc. The problem with Byron Katie is that she supports the New Age perspective that people should live in some altered state of consciousness (called grace, I believe) that is without all of the "negative" states that Katie herself could not handle, and therefore ended up
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher: You write: For example, someone, whether it's BK or my friend, suggests to me that despite abuse I suffered, I was also an abuser. If I have no boundaries, this will hurt, I will take it literally, I will get extremely angry, I will feel as if it is true and yet have no way to counter the bitterness of it. It's way too much at once. I will have no choice but to react again
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: I will watch for others personally attacking you, but be honest, you are not here for a discussion, rather just to defend Katie. FYI--Bashing people that feel they were damaged by Katie by offering your amateur psychoanalysis making them somehow responsible for their own injury is a type of personal attack. BTW--Substituting Katie for legitimate professional counseling and thera
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"