Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
Abc
()
Date: February 22, 2007 11:03AM
First of all I'm sorry for the late to answer your question,as a truck-driver i'm away from home sometimes by weeks,and i thank you so much for your question,even if i know some people are hiding things under their words wanting to tell to people(non-muslims)that Islam is bad,Islam is terrorism,evil...But I'm sure there are good people out there,they know what i'm talking about.
before i answer your question i would like to tell you that you know this verse real good:
[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
this passage gives us an important clue to the interpretation of the Quran.Broadly speaking it may be divided into two portions,not given seperately,but intermingled:(1)the nucleus or foundation of the book,literally"the mother of the book".(2)the part which is not entirely clear,it is very fascinating to take up the latter,and exercise our ingenuity about its meaning,but it refers to such profound matters that are beyond human language,and though people of wisdom may get some light from it,no one should be dogmatic,as the final meaning is known to God alone.
the commentators usually understand the verses " of established meaning"(Muhkam)to refer to the categorical orders of the (Shari'a)(or the law),which are plain to everyone's understanding.But perhaps the meaning is wider:"the mother of the book"must include the very foundation od which all Law rests,the essence of God Message,as distinguished from the various illustrative parables,allegories,and ordinances.
Now let me go back to the verse that you mentioned the verse is:
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
the tax is( Jizya ) in arabic langauge the root meaning is compensation,the derived meaning,which became the technical meaning,was a poll-tax levied from those who did not accept Islam,but were willing to live under the protection of Islam,and were thus tacitly willing to submit to its ideal's being enforced in the muslim State,they said like one(Dinar) a year may be to day one Dollar.It was an acknowledgment that those whose religion was tolerated would in their turn not interfere with the preaching and progress of Islam,the tax varied in amount,and there were exceptions
for the poor,for females and children,for slaves,and for monks and hermits...etc
This verse( Surat) as you know it called ( Immunity ),but there is a verse ( Surat ) before it,it call ( the Examined one )and this is the fourth of the ten Madinah suras,each dealing with a special point in the life of the new Ummat ( Nation),this Sura IS AFTER THE PAGANS HAD BROKEN THE TREATY OF HUDAIBIYA,if you don't know about it let me know to see how the muslims reacted at that time dealing with that matter.
So all these verses were talking and ordering orders to muslims for that time to fight those who were fighting them wanting Islam be down...And it is used to day if muslims are in danger for sure they have to fight back...Any nation is under attack what they have to do??? wait for the others to kill them all??? I don't think so.
Hence,many fanatic muslims,or anti-Islam use like these verses and use it to kill innocent people,or to make Islam look as evil just because there is a political issues,money,business...etc it's all about the power,and control,some use religion,some use democracy,others use different kind of meaning and excuses to cover their real faces,but not Islam,or any real true religion which establishes the relationship between man and God,between, nations and tribes,away from racism,differences of languages,classes...etc,all are equal in front of him...
Come on people do not judge the whole religion,while Islam its point of view of killing is clear and fair enough to those who blame it as a bloody religion because of what they see in the news...
Let's see what Islam says about Killing,and look for yourself,isn't this a logic and a wise way to look at it.The Quran says:
[17.33]:And do not kill anyone which God has forbidden,exept for a just cause.And whoever is killed(intentionally with hostility and opprission and not by mistake,)we have given his heir the authority [ ( to demande Qisas(Law of equality in punishement or to forgive,or to take Diya(Blood money)].But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life ( i.e he should not kill except the killer only).Verily he is helped ( by the Islamic law).
[4.29] O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill yourselves(nor kill one another); surely God is Most Merciful to you.
All these verses and others are extremely clear...
Some use like these kind of verses out of context to harm religion,or to kill non-muslims...But in fact they are harming just themselves...
Like one guy here said that Jihad doesn’t just mean killing people and there can be different types of jihad, but killing people will get you special blessings , and killing people to spread the religion is part of the religion ...
I tell you,this is how some people try to make islam look bad,but the answer for that is that: The prophet said: the biggest(the greatest)Jihad is to fight yourself,in order to win satan,and to gain goods by not doing sins...
so what Jihad this guy talking about?what he is talking about let's say,if your country is under attack will you go to fight for it or no?of course you'll go,so= jihad for your country,for your people...and there is nothing wrong with it,may be it is wrong for some whom have no honor,no dignity...some are just using the what i call it: The game of the words,they play with words and its meaning that's all,but the fact is the truth of Islam is killing them and they envy it i really do not know why? just because of the arabs,Islam is not the arabs,if you are a muslim,you are a muslim.it doesn't mean you are indian or american,or Italian...I guess you get what I'm saying.
Thanks again.
Be wise my friend,my man,my woman,life is short and nothing will last,anything starts good ends good...So do good as long as you are alive.[/b][/size:eaa836be16]
before i answer your question i would like to tell you that you know this verse real good:
[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
this passage gives us an important clue to the interpretation of the Quran.Broadly speaking it may be divided into two portions,not given seperately,but intermingled:(1)the nucleus or foundation of the book,literally"the mother of the book".(2)the part which is not entirely clear,it is very fascinating to take up the latter,and exercise our ingenuity about its meaning,but it refers to such profound matters that are beyond human language,and though people of wisdom may get some light from it,no one should be dogmatic,as the final meaning is known to God alone.
the commentators usually understand the verses " of established meaning"(Muhkam)to refer to the categorical orders of the (Shari'a)(or the law),which are plain to everyone's understanding.But perhaps the meaning is wider:"the mother of the book"must include the very foundation od which all Law rests,the essence of God Message,as distinguished from the various illustrative parables,allegories,and ordinances.
Now let me go back to the verse that you mentioned the verse is:
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
the tax is( Jizya ) in arabic langauge the root meaning is compensation,the derived meaning,which became the technical meaning,was a poll-tax levied from those who did not accept Islam,but were willing to live under the protection of Islam,and were thus tacitly willing to submit to its ideal's being enforced in the muslim State,they said like one(Dinar) a year may be to day one Dollar.It was an acknowledgment that those whose religion was tolerated would in their turn not interfere with the preaching and progress of Islam,the tax varied in amount,and there were exceptions
for the poor,for females and children,for slaves,and for monks and hermits...etc
This verse( Surat) as you know it called ( Immunity ),but there is a verse ( Surat ) before it,it call ( the Examined one )and this is the fourth of the ten Madinah suras,each dealing with a special point in the life of the new Ummat ( Nation),this Sura IS AFTER THE PAGANS HAD BROKEN THE TREATY OF HUDAIBIYA,if you don't know about it let me know to see how the muslims reacted at that time dealing with that matter.
So all these verses were talking and ordering orders to muslims for that time to fight those who were fighting them wanting Islam be down...And it is used to day if muslims are in danger for sure they have to fight back...Any nation is under attack what they have to do??? wait for the others to kill them all??? I don't think so.
Hence,many fanatic muslims,or anti-Islam use like these verses and use it to kill innocent people,or to make Islam look as evil just because there is a political issues,money,business...etc it's all about the power,and control,some use religion,some use democracy,others use different kind of meaning and excuses to cover their real faces,but not Islam,or any real true religion which establishes the relationship between man and God,between, nations and tribes,away from racism,differences of languages,classes...etc,all are equal in front of him...
Come on people do not judge the whole religion,while Islam its point of view of killing is clear and fair enough to those who blame it as a bloody religion because of what they see in the news...
Let's see what Islam says about Killing,and look for yourself,isn't this a logic and a wise way to look at it.The Quran says:
[17.33]:And do not kill anyone which God has forbidden,exept for a just cause.And whoever is killed(intentionally with hostility and opprission and not by mistake,)we have given his heir the authority [ ( to demande Qisas(Law of equality in punishement or to forgive,or to take Diya(Blood money)].But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life ( i.e he should not kill except the killer only).Verily he is helped ( by the Islamic law).
[4.29] O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill yourselves(nor kill one another); surely God is Most Merciful to you.
All these verses and others are extremely clear...
Some use like these kind of verses out of context to harm religion,or to kill non-muslims...But in fact they are harming just themselves...
Like one guy here said that Jihad doesn’t just mean killing people and there can be different types of jihad, but killing people will get you special blessings , and killing people to spread the religion is part of the religion ...
I tell you,this is how some people try to make islam look bad,but the answer for that is that: The prophet said: the biggest(the greatest)Jihad is to fight yourself,in order to win satan,and to gain goods by not doing sins...
so what Jihad this guy talking about?what he is talking about let's say,if your country is under attack will you go to fight for it or no?of course you'll go,so= jihad for your country,for your people...and there is nothing wrong with it,may be it is wrong for some whom have no honor,no dignity...some are just using the what i call it: The game of the words,they play with words and its meaning that's all,but the fact is the truth of Islam is killing them and they envy it i really do not know why? just because of the arabs,Islam is not the arabs,if you are a muslim,you are a muslim.it doesn't mean you are indian or american,or Italian...I guess you get what I'm saying.
Thanks again.
Be wise my friend,my man,my woman,life is short and nothing will last,anything starts good ends good...So do good as long as you are alive.[/b][/size:eaa836be16]
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: February 24, 2007 05:24AM
>the tax is( Jizya ) in arabic langauge the root meaning is >compensation,the derived >meaning,which became the technical >meaning,was a poll-tax levied from those who did >not accept Islam,but >were willing to live under the protection of Islam,and were thus >tacitly >willing to submit to its ideal's being enforced in the muslim State,they >said like >one(Dinar) a year may be to day one Dollar.It was an >acknowledgment that those whose >religion was tolerated would in their >turn not interfere with the preaching and progress >of Islam,the tax >varied in amount,and there were exceptions
You sound as though you don’t have a problem with the system of dhimmitude and paint a very rose-colored version of it. Why should there be a “muslim state”, why can’t all people living within mostly Muslim countries enjoy the same rights as Muslims? Dhimmis were forced to wear special clothes, cut the front of their hair off, and were often hit as part of their paying of jizya in a special ceremony, so they would “feel themselves subjugated”. Can you understand why that concept would be totally alien to those of living in the West?
>this Sura IS AFTER THE PAGANS HAD BROKEN THE TREATY OF >HUDAIBIYA,if you don't know about it let me know to see how the >muslims reacted at >that time dealing with that matter.
>So all these verses were talking and ordering orders to muslims for that >time to fight >those who were fighting them wanting Islam be >down...And it is used to day if muslims >are in danger for sure they >have to fight back
You bring up an interesting point and are honest to bring this up. Contrary to many Islamic apologists who lie to Westerners that “things that happened in the Koran aren’t particularly relevant to the day”. You are clearly knowledgeable enough about your own religion to understand that Muslims consider Mohammed the perfect man and that his words are considered the literal truth to this day. I will not call you a radical, an extremist, or terrorist. You are not. You are firmly within the Islamic mainstream with your beliefs. And that is EXACTLY the problem.
>Let's see what Islam says about Killing,and look for yourself,isn't this a logic and a wise >way to look at it.The Quran says:
>[17.33]:And do not kill anyone which God has forbidden,exept for a just cause.
Who defines what is and what is not a “just cause?”
>Like one guy here said that Jihad doesn’t just mean killing people and >there can be >different types of jihad, but killing people will get you >special blessings , and killing >people to spread the religion is part of >the religion ...
This part is confusing. Are you agreeing with or criticizing this point of view? It sounds as though you are agreeing with the notion that “killing people will get you special blessings, killing people to spread the religion is part of the religion.” Again, if that is what you think, you are being consistent with your religion. And again, THAT is the problem! Warfare in the name of jihad is the highest honor, a point that has been made by numerous Islamic scholars from Qutb to Khomeini.
You sound as though you don’t have a problem with the system of dhimmitude and paint a very rose-colored version of it. Why should there be a “muslim state”, why can’t all people living within mostly Muslim countries enjoy the same rights as Muslims? Dhimmis were forced to wear special clothes, cut the front of their hair off, and were often hit as part of their paying of jizya in a special ceremony, so they would “feel themselves subjugated”. Can you understand why that concept would be totally alien to those of living in the West?
>this Sura IS AFTER THE PAGANS HAD BROKEN THE TREATY OF >HUDAIBIYA,if you don't know about it let me know to see how the >muslims reacted at >that time dealing with that matter.
>So all these verses were talking and ordering orders to muslims for that >time to fight >those who were fighting them wanting Islam be >down...And it is used to day if muslims >are in danger for sure they >have to fight back
You bring up an interesting point and are honest to bring this up. Contrary to many Islamic apologists who lie to Westerners that “things that happened in the Koran aren’t particularly relevant to the day”. You are clearly knowledgeable enough about your own religion to understand that Muslims consider Mohammed the perfect man and that his words are considered the literal truth to this day. I will not call you a radical, an extremist, or terrorist. You are not. You are firmly within the Islamic mainstream with your beliefs. And that is EXACTLY the problem.
>Let's see what Islam says about Killing,and look for yourself,isn't this a logic and a wise >way to look at it.The Quran says:
>[17.33]:And do not kill anyone which God has forbidden,exept for a just cause.
Who defines what is and what is not a “just cause?”
>Like one guy here said that Jihad doesn’t just mean killing people and >there can be >different types of jihad, but killing people will get you >special blessings , and killing >people to spread the religion is part of >the religion ...
This part is confusing. Are you agreeing with or criticizing this point of view? It sounds as though you are agreeing with the notion that “killing people will get you special blessings, killing people to spread the religion is part of the religion.” Again, if that is what you think, you are being consistent with your religion. And again, THAT is the problem! Warfare in the name of jihad is the highest honor, a point that has been made by numerous Islamic scholars from Qutb to Khomeini.
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
Abc
()
Date: March 03, 2007 10:59AM
Thanks for your reply Mr Shakti and i apologize again for the late,as i told you i'm always away from home,or computers to follow,or to reply you as soon as possible,but here i'm again to answer you,so You are welcome :
[17.33]:And do not kill anyone which God has forbidden,exept for a just cause.(this is a vers from the Quran )
You said:(Who defines what is and what is not a “just cause?” )
As you see the verse is so clear,and you still doubted it,and for your answer who defines it as a just cause is (God =Allah) i know you know the word Allah.So here another verse:
He who killed a human being without the latter being guilty of killing another or of spreading anarchy in the land should be looked upon as if he had killed all mankind. (5:32)
How in the presence of this verse and other verses which protect human life and honour can anyone accuse islam of sanctioning murder.
What people like those who hate Islam have failed to appreciate is that when Quran prescribes death penalty it is refering to a particular group of criminals who had a long list of crimes against prophet and his companions and despite being given many allowances and chances to change their aggressive behaviour towards muslims they adhered to their rage and savagery.How else could prophet have dealt with them?Islam is very clear about one thing that it is on the side of innocent and decent people and would not tolerate murderers,rapists,terrorist,paedophiles etc etc.Any crime which puts human life,honour and wealth in any jeopardy is dealt with harshly by Islam.of course in doing so it would always keep the nature and severity of the crime and the circumstances of the criminals, in view.Many criminals got allowances during the time of prophet pbuh 'cause they deserved it.
Another important point to note is that most of the verses where killings are prescribed relate to state of war.These verses are for enemies of muslims whom they had subjected to persecution for 13 years in Mecca and when they finally migrated to Medina even then they did not let them live in peace and attacked Medina numerous times.Now,you tell me when you are in a state of war defending your land,property and family how are you supposed to act.You don't invite your enemy,specially the one who has been an aggressor for so long to have a cup of tea with you.You strike them in the hardest of ways till they surrender and you know my friend if you read the history how muslims have dealt with the prisoners of wars you will be amazed to see how gracefully and honourably POWs were treated by them quite unlike the Americans and British of modern times.
You wrote:
It sounds as though you are agreeing with the notion that killing people to spread the religion is part of the religion.” Again, if that is what you think, you are being consistent with your religion. And again, THAT is the problem! Warfare in the name of jihad is the highest honor, a point that has been made by numerous Islamic scholars from Qutb to Khomeini.
I think you are smart enough to know my position through what i said before and explained it to you through the Quran.
An it's totally wrong,to spread Islam never was nor will be by force,and that is clear in the Quran,To be a muslim you have to accept it by knowledge,and willingly.
I can tell from your writing that you are one of those who hate Islam without knowledge,if they know about it,they know just the surface...And there alots of people out there like you my friend...And excuse me to tell you,you're understanding to Islam is like the understanding the terrorists to it,like two faces to the main coin.
You are talking about "Killing in Islam" let's see in your religion what it does it say about it? If you do not know,I will be glad to post it next time.
I am very willing to discuss each and every verse of Quran or any other negative opinion you have about islam.I only request you to be patient,impartial and decent(Which you have already shown you are).It is only when you dig deep you find the truth.Superficial knowledge is harmful for everyone.
We will all find out one day who amongst us was right.
God bless you[/b][/size:34cedf398b]
[17.33]:And do not kill anyone which God has forbidden,exept for a just cause.(this is a vers from the Quran )
You said:(Who defines what is and what is not a “just cause?” )
As you see the verse is so clear,and you still doubted it,and for your answer who defines it as a just cause is (God =Allah) i know you know the word Allah.So here another verse:
He who killed a human being without the latter being guilty of killing another or of spreading anarchy in the land should be looked upon as if he had killed all mankind. (5:32)
How in the presence of this verse and other verses which protect human life and honour can anyone accuse islam of sanctioning murder.
What people like those who hate Islam have failed to appreciate is that when Quran prescribes death penalty it is refering to a particular group of criminals who had a long list of crimes against prophet and his companions and despite being given many allowances and chances to change their aggressive behaviour towards muslims they adhered to their rage and savagery.How else could prophet have dealt with them?Islam is very clear about one thing that it is on the side of innocent and decent people and would not tolerate murderers,rapists,terrorist,paedophiles etc etc.Any crime which puts human life,honour and wealth in any jeopardy is dealt with harshly by Islam.of course in doing so it would always keep the nature and severity of the crime and the circumstances of the criminals, in view.Many criminals got allowances during the time of prophet pbuh 'cause they deserved it.
Another important point to note is that most of the verses where killings are prescribed relate to state of war.These verses are for enemies of muslims whom they had subjected to persecution for 13 years in Mecca and when they finally migrated to Medina even then they did not let them live in peace and attacked Medina numerous times.Now,you tell me when you are in a state of war defending your land,property and family how are you supposed to act.You don't invite your enemy,specially the one who has been an aggressor for so long to have a cup of tea with you.You strike them in the hardest of ways till they surrender and you know my friend if you read the history how muslims have dealt with the prisoners of wars you will be amazed to see how gracefully and honourably POWs were treated by them quite unlike the Americans and British of modern times.
You wrote:
It sounds as though you are agreeing with the notion that killing people to spread the religion is part of the religion.” Again, if that is what you think, you are being consistent with your religion. And again, THAT is the problem! Warfare in the name of jihad is the highest honor, a point that has been made by numerous Islamic scholars from Qutb to Khomeini.
I think you are smart enough to know my position through what i said before and explained it to you through the Quran.
An it's totally wrong,to spread Islam never was nor will be by force,and that is clear in the Quran,To be a muslim you have to accept it by knowledge,and willingly.
I can tell from your writing that you are one of those who hate Islam without knowledge,if they know about it,they know just the surface...And there alots of people out there like you my friend...And excuse me to tell you,you're understanding to Islam is like the understanding the terrorists to it,like two faces to the main coin.
You are talking about "Killing in Islam" let's see in your religion what it does it say about it? If you do not know,I will be glad to post it next time.
I am very willing to discuss each and every verse of Quran or any other negative opinion you have about islam.I only request you to be patient,impartial and decent(Which you have already shown you are).It is only when you dig deep you find the truth.Superficial knowledge is harmful for everyone.
We will all find out one day who amongst us was right.
God bless you[/b][/size:34cedf398b]
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
Abc
()
Date: March 03, 2007 08:13PM
First of all special thanks to my friend for this subject.
Concept of Jihad in Islam:
byislamskhalid
I shall try to piece together the concept of Jihad or warfare in Islam in simplest possible terms as I understand that it is difficult to comprehend a concept until and unless it is put together as a whole in a logical sequence and manner. My readers will do me a great favour by reading it with some care and deliberation.
1) Every human society sets some rules and regulations to conduct a smooth discourse amongst its members. States develop penal codes to punish transgressors and criminals within its boundaries. Sometimes groups, states or nations become criminal by unjustly threatening or attacking other state or states. This has been the basis of warfare in the whole human history. Common sense demands that a state unjustly attacked or oppressed should have right to defend itself by carrying out armed struggle.
2) God our Lord has given this life to us as a test which is very clearly stated in the Holy Quran. The test is whether a human being, by using his intellect and wisdom, recognises his Creator and willingly submits himself to the will of his Lord. The very nature of this test demands that every human being gets the chance to make this choice by his own free will. Otherwise the test is not valid. Hence it is according to the scheme of our Lord that human beings are able to make this choice with maximum freedom without fear of persecution or oppression. God our Lord has ordained on believers that they should keep the option of this choice available to everybody by removing persecution or oppression in human society. This is the basis of concept of Jihad in Islam and the set of rules governing this warfare is called Law of Jihad or Shariyah of Jihad.
3) At this stage, I shall digress to explain another type of warfare carried out by Holy Prophet (SWS) and his companions which relates to another concept in Quran i.e., “Law of Itmam-e-Hujjah”. It was only related with warfare carried out by Holy Prophet (SWS) and his companions and had nothing to do with muslims after period of companions of Holy Prophet (SWS). Hence it is not part of Islamic Shariyah. Briefly it goes as follows:
a) God chose through his mercy and kindness to send prophets (Nabiyyun) to guide mankind (to become successful in this test of life). Some of the prophets, when sent to particular peoples or nations with a mission to reveal the truth in its ultimate form are called Messengers (Rusul). Their exalted moral characters, steadfastness in their mission, and accompanying signs are clear evidence of the truth and they devote themselves absolutely in the way of their Lord. All these ingredients lead to revelation of truth to the extent that their addressees are left with no excuse for rejection of the message. This is called Itmam-e-Hujjah.
b) This is the stage when God (and not the messenger) decides that rejecters of truth are rejecting the message of truth not because they are unclear about the message, but because of arrogance and various other ulterior motives. The God knows that the rejecters of truth are not going to accept the truth hence He decides to eliminate these rejecters (but only if they are polytheists as well) from the face of the earth as they have been given ample and intensive opportunity to understand and accept the truth but they have failed to show ability to accept it. Hence these rejecters are eliminated from the face of this earth as a matter of punishment. At this stage God orders the messenger and their followers to leave the rejecters. This is called Hijrah.
c) Now if enough numbers have not accepted the truth the punishment is effected after Hijrah of messenger and their followers through natural catastrophes or accidents like floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, drowning etc. Rejecters out of people of Noah, Lut, Shoaib, Hood (sws) faced this punishment.
d) On the other hand if enough numbers accept the truth and the messengers and their followers are able to consolidate their power in the form of an organised state then the same punishment is implemented through arms and swords of the messengers and followers. Biography of Prophet Moses (sws) carries example of punishment of both types.
e) While the biography of Holy Prophet of Islam is the example of the second type of punishment. After Itmam-e-Hujjah, Hijra and consolidation of power into the state of Medina this punishment was implemented in different phases until the final phase was implemented as described in Sura Tauba (9th Suras) of Holy Quran. The directives of Jehad in this sura are related to this concept of Itmam-e-Hujja and are (most of them) not part of Sharyiah. A number of Ahadith are not properly understood because of the same reason. Polytheists were ordered to be killed and people of the book ( who in principle professed monotheism) were ordered to be subdued through Jehad. Further as the companions of the Holy Prophet were just extension of the Prophet’s mission they were ordered to impose subjugation on all people in a certain geographical zone defined by Holy prophet (sws) himself. As a corrollory there were certain directives of subjugation which were embodied in the Dhimmi status. Hence following points needs to be clearly understood: -nobody can be called Kafir after the period of Holy Prophet (sws). Kafirs were only those who rejected the messenger. Now the classification is muslim and non-muslim only. -Nobody can be reduced into status of Dhimmi after the time of companions of Holy prophet (sws). This status involved paying jizia, wearing certain signs of distinction, not being able to propagate their religion etc. –As not accepting truth after Itmam-e-Hujjah involved punishment of death and elimination similarly leaving Islam after accepting it during the messenger and his companions period involved punishment of death. This is the basis of apostate’s punishment which has since finished and NOW THERE IS NO PUNISHMENT FOR AN APOSTATE in Islamic Sharyiah whatsoever. This is in short the dynamics of Jijad under Itmam-e-Hujjah and has nothing to do with Shariah of Islam given to mankind for all times to come.
4) Now coming back to Shayiah of Jihad briefly it goes as follows:
a) Jihad is now only againt oppression and persecution. It can both be defensive as well as offensive depending on the circumstances.
b) As warfare is an activity which involves loss of so much life and property and brings in so many other complications only a sovereign state can undertake such an activity. Only a state can control its conduct and its aftermath. Without a state it surly brings chaos and anarchy. Hence no Al-qaeda type activity is allowed in Islam.
c) Even a state is obliged to carry out Jihad only if it has enough strength. Quran has clearly required this strength to be at least half that of the enemy.
d) Civilian non-combatants cannot be indiscreetly killed or specifically targeted for killing under Islamic Sharyiah. Hence THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ANY TERORRIST ACTIVITY IN ISLAMIC SHARYIAH.
Similarly no weapons can be prepared or acquired by a muslim state whose primary aim is to target civilian non-combatants or produce mass destruction of populations. Hence there is NO ROOM FOR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN ISLAMIC SHARIAH. Mind you the purpose of warfare is removal of persecution and oppression only and not the destruction of mankind.
e) Prisoners of war will not be forced to accept Islam, will not be turned into slaves and concubines and will be treated in the kindest possible manner.
Hopefully this summary should prove useful in clarify some misunderstandings.
May God may guide us to the truth
Faithfully
[/b][/size:3ac6a8fdaa]
Concept of Jihad in Islam:
byislamskhalid
I shall try to piece together the concept of Jihad or warfare in Islam in simplest possible terms as I understand that it is difficult to comprehend a concept until and unless it is put together as a whole in a logical sequence and manner. My readers will do me a great favour by reading it with some care and deliberation.
1) Every human society sets some rules and regulations to conduct a smooth discourse amongst its members. States develop penal codes to punish transgressors and criminals within its boundaries. Sometimes groups, states or nations become criminal by unjustly threatening or attacking other state or states. This has been the basis of warfare in the whole human history. Common sense demands that a state unjustly attacked or oppressed should have right to defend itself by carrying out armed struggle.
2) God our Lord has given this life to us as a test which is very clearly stated in the Holy Quran. The test is whether a human being, by using his intellect and wisdom, recognises his Creator and willingly submits himself to the will of his Lord. The very nature of this test demands that every human being gets the chance to make this choice by his own free will. Otherwise the test is not valid. Hence it is according to the scheme of our Lord that human beings are able to make this choice with maximum freedom without fear of persecution or oppression. God our Lord has ordained on believers that they should keep the option of this choice available to everybody by removing persecution or oppression in human society. This is the basis of concept of Jihad in Islam and the set of rules governing this warfare is called Law of Jihad or Shariyah of Jihad.
3) At this stage, I shall digress to explain another type of warfare carried out by Holy Prophet (SWS) and his companions which relates to another concept in Quran i.e., “Law of Itmam-e-Hujjah”. It was only related with warfare carried out by Holy Prophet (SWS) and his companions and had nothing to do with muslims after period of companions of Holy Prophet (SWS). Hence it is not part of Islamic Shariyah. Briefly it goes as follows:
a) God chose through his mercy and kindness to send prophets (Nabiyyun) to guide mankind (to become successful in this test of life). Some of the prophets, when sent to particular peoples or nations with a mission to reveal the truth in its ultimate form are called Messengers (Rusul). Their exalted moral characters, steadfastness in their mission, and accompanying signs are clear evidence of the truth and they devote themselves absolutely in the way of their Lord. All these ingredients lead to revelation of truth to the extent that their addressees are left with no excuse for rejection of the message. This is called Itmam-e-Hujjah.
b) This is the stage when God (and not the messenger) decides that rejecters of truth are rejecting the message of truth not because they are unclear about the message, but because of arrogance and various other ulterior motives. The God knows that the rejecters of truth are not going to accept the truth hence He decides to eliminate these rejecters (but only if they are polytheists as well) from the face of the earth as they have been given ample and intensive opportunity to understand and accept the truth but they have failed to show ability to accept it. Hence these rejecters are eliminated from the face of this earth as a matter of punishment. At this stage God orders the messenger and their followers to leave the rejecters. This is called Hijrah.
c) Now if enough numbers have not accepted the truth the punishment is effected after Hijrah of messenger and their followers through natural catastrophes or accidents like floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, drowning etc. Rejecters out of people of Noah, Lut, Shoaib, Hood (sws) faced this punishment.
d) On the other hand if enough numbers accept the truth and the messengers and their followers are able to consolidate their power in the form of an organised state then the same punishment is implemented through arms and swords of the messengers and followers. Biography of Prophet Moses (sws) carries example of punishment of both types.
e) While the biography of Holy Prophet of Islam is the example of the second type of punishment. After Itmam-e-Hujjah, Hijra and consolidation of power into the state of Medina this punishment was implemented in different phases until the final phase was implemented as described in Sura Tauba (9th Suras) of Holy Quran. The directives of Jehad in this sura are related to this concept of Itmam-e-Hujja and are (most of them) not part of Sharyiah. A number of Ahadith are not properly understood because of the same reason. Polytheists were ordered to be killed and people of the book ( who in principle professed monotheism) were ordered to be subdued through Jehad. Further as the companions of the Holy Prophet were just extension of the Prophet’s mission they were ordered to impose subjugation on all people in a certain geographical zone defined by Holy prophet (sws) himself. As a corrollory there were certain directives of subjugation which were embodied in the Dhimmi status. Hence following points needs to be clearly understood: -nobody can be called Kafir after the period of Holy Prophet (sws). Kafirs were only those who rejected the messenger. Now the classification is muslim and non-muslim only. -Nobody can be reduced into status of Dhimmi after the time of companions of Holy prophet (sws). This status involved paying jizia, wearing certain signs of distinction, not being able to propagate their religion etc. –As not accepting truth after Itmam-e-Hujjah involved punishment of death and elimination similarly leaving Islam after accepting it during the messenger and his companions period involved punishment of death. This is the basis of apostate’s punishment which has since finished and NOW THERE IS NO PUNISHMENT FOR AN APOSTATE in Islamic Sharyiah whatsoever. This is in short the dynamics of Jijad under Itmam-e-Hujjah and has nothing to do with Shariah of Islam given to mankind for all times to come.
4) Now coming back to Shayiah of Jihad briefly it goes as follows:
a) Jihad is now only againt oppression and persecution. It can both be defensive as well as offensive depending on the circumstances.
b) As warfare is an activity which involves loss of so much life and property and brings in so many other complications only a sovereign state can undertake such an activity. Only a state can control its conduct and its aftermath. Without a state it surly brings chaos and anarchy. Hence no Al-qaeda type activity is allowed in Islam.
c) Even a state is obliged to carry out Jihad only if it has enough strength. Quran has clearly required this strength to be at least half that of the enemy.
d) Civilian non-combatants cannot be indiscreetly killed or specifically targeted for killing under Islamic Sharyiah. Hence THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ANY TERORRIST ACTIVITY IN ISLAMIC SHARYIAH.
Similarly no weapons can be prepared or acquired by a muslim state whose primary aim is to target civilian non-combatants or produce mass destruction of populations. Hence there is NO ROOM FOR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN ISLAMIC SHARIAH. Mind you the purpose of warfare is removal of persecution and oppression only and not the destruction of mankind.
e) Prisoners of war will not be forced to accept Islam, will not be turned into slaves and concubines and will be treated in the kindest possible manner.
Hopefully this summary should prove useful in clarify some misunderstandings.
May God may guide us to the truth
Faithfully
[/b][/size:3ac6a8fdaa]
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: March 04, 2007 03:27AM
Abc:
Please stop putting your posts all in bold.
It seems kind of pushy and self-important.
If there is a very specific point or heading that needs bold use it, but not entire entry.
Please stop putting your posts all in bold.
It seems kind of pushy and self-important.
If there is a very specific point or heading that needs bold use it, but not entire entry.
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
Abc
()
Date: March 04, 2007 01:20PM
Dear rrmoderator:
thanks.
I'll try to follow what you've just said.
I'm sorry if It seems kind of pushy and self-important to you.
Is the ink more expensive ? :D
I'm just kidding,thanks anyway.
thanks.
I'll try to follow what you've just said.
I'm sorry if It seems kind of pushy and self-important to you.
Is the ink more expensive ? :D
I'm just kidding,thanks anyway.
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
time
()
Date: March 05, 2007 03:51PM
Why do many Muslims live in western secular or Christian countries and yet there are many who want Sharia law?
If people feel comfortable living a Sharia lifestyle, why not live in a country that practices a form of Sharia, like Northern Nigeria or Saudi Arabia?
If you are a Shite, why not live in Iran? Why live in the west, which many do and yet I know some who hate living there?
If people feel comfortable living a Sharia lifestyle, why not live in a country that practices a form of Sharia, like Northern Nigeria or Saudi Arabia?
If you are a Shite, why not live in Iran? Why live in the west, which many do and yet I know some who hate living there?
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
Abc
()
Date: March 06, 2007 11:41AM
Dear Time:
I guess you are smart enough to ask like those questions,can you give me an example of muslims who are living in western countries wanted Sharia law?
Can you give me an example of muslims,knocking on the doors of people in these countries asking them to become muslims,or forcing them to do so?
But the muslims are living in these countries accepting the law of these countries and working under it,respecting other nations,other relagions...etc
By the way i'm not shite,i'm a muslim who believes in Mohamed as a prophet,and in the Quran,i live in USA,and i respect people here,i have friends christians,hindus,some friends do not believe in God at all...and yet we respect each other...Some of them ask many questions and I answer them either they like it or not...Some of them asked me to give them the Quran to read more about Islam,some of them wanted to know everything about it,we talk about many stuff,i learn from them,as they learn from me...so what's on that?
You know there is a rule it says wherever you work that's your country,i consider USA as my country,and i have to protect it if it needs me to...
You said:If you are a Shite, why not live in Iran? Why live in the west.
God created this universe and everybody has the right to go wherever he wants meet other people,learn from other culture, God said in the Quran that he created us nations,and tribes to know each other...It doesn't matter to live in shite,or suni,or christian country it's between you and your God,if you are a bad person,you're bad even if you live in the moon,if you are a human being you have to show that you are really one,smart,nice,love everybody like you love yourself or more...,that what does really matter...We have to put away the conflict between nations,between religions,between races...Do not be hateful...Hate causes only hate...You have the right to choose for yourself your belief,you have the right to choose your path in this life...NO one is pushing you to believe what he believes...Respect yourself,you'll receive the respect...Do not talk bad about others,you'll never hear bad stuff about yourself,live a free man,and respect the other freedom,because your freedom stops when the other freedom starts...
We have to put all our differences apart and just try to love each other once for the sake of humanity that's all...Muslms are not killers,Islam is not bad...Each person is responsible about his actions.I agree with you there fanatic people in all religions,in all nations and tribes...but the majority are not,let's look and treat ourselves first then we can treat and look to the others.
You are smart enough my friend to put like these questions here,it will be read by millions of people,do not humiliate yourself.
Take care my friend.
and have a good day/night.
Yours
Just a Muslim.
I guess you are smart enough to ask like those questions,can you give me an example of muslims who are living in western countries wanted Sharia law?
Can you give me an example of muslims,knocking on the doors of people in these countries asking them to become muslims,or forcing them to do so?
But the muslims are living in these countries accepting the law of these countries and working under it,respecting other nations,other relagions...etc
By the way i'm not shite,i'm a muslim who believes in Mohamed as a prophet,and in the Quran,i live in USA,and i respect people here,i have friends christians,hindus,some friends do not believe in God at all...and yet we respect each other...Some of them ask many questions and I answer them either they like it or not...Some of them asked me to give them the Quran to read more about Islam,some of them wanted to know everything about it,we talk about many stuff,i learn from them,as they learn from me...so what's on that?
You know there is a rule it says wherever you work that's your country,i consider USA as my country,and i have to protect it if it needs me to...
You said:If you are a Shite, why not live in Iran? Why live in the west.
God created this universe and everybody has the right to go wherever he wants meet other people,learn from other culture, God said in the Quran that he created us nations,and tribes to know each other...It doesn't matter to live in shite,or suni,or christian country it's between you and your God,if you are a bad person,you're bad even if you live in the moon,if you are a human being you have to show that you are really one,smart,nice,love everybody like you love yourself or more...,that what does really matter...We have to put away the conflict between nations,between religions,between races...Do not be hateful...Hate causes only hate...You have the right to choose for yourself your belief,you have the right to choose your path in this life...NO one is pushing you to believe what he believes...Respect yourself,you'll receive the respect...Do not talk bad about others,you'll never hear bad stuff about yourself,live a free man,and respect the other freedom,because your freedom stops when the other freedom starts...
We have to put all our differences apart and just try to love each other once for the sake of humanity that's all...Muslms are not killers,Islam is not bad...Each person is responsible about his actions.I agree with you there fanatic people in all religions,in all nations and tribes...but the majority are not,let's look and treat ourselves first then we can treat and look to the others.
You are smart enough my friend to put like these questions here,it will be read by millions of people,do not humiliate yourself.
Take care my friend.
and have a good day/night.
Yours
Just a Muslim.
Islam and it's problems today
Posted by:
Kastlefeer
()
Date: July 29, 2007 02:29PM
Personally I don't see the need to compare religions as predominantly none are based on evidential arguments and relying on faith to guide ones destiny is a hopeless endeavor.
I don't think there's really much use for benign religions, i don't think there are any. Blind faith is pretty useless and cherry picking bits and pieces is contemptable to the origins of most de-fanged religions. Qualifiers mid sermon, non-literal interpretations of holy books, what's the point?
Religion is imho purposefully confusing, hypocritical, and criminal.
I think mankind should be the focus, the supernatural (for which there is not a single iota of evidence for) can look after it's own damn self.
Finally Islam, in it's fundamentalist flavours is a refreshing reminder of what a dark age could truly be like.
That said, be wary of corrupt secular institutions, hmmn like the bush administration hehe. They love to use religion to put one over on us.
I don't think there's really much use for benign religions, i don't think there are any. Blind faith is pretty useless and cherry picking bits and pieces is contemptable to the origins of most de-fanged religions. Qualifiers mid sermon, non-literal interpretations of holy books, what's the point?
Religion is imho purposefully confusing, hypocritical, and criminal.
I think mankind should be the focus, the supernatural (for which there is not a single iota of evidence for) can look after it's own damn self.
Finally Islam, in it's fundamentalist flavours is a refreshing reminder of what a dark age could truly be like.
That said, be wary of corrupt secular institutions, hmmn like the bush administration hehe. They love to use religion to put one over on us.
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