Sad news from Israel. This was not a random kidnapping and act of violence. This is religious fanaticism. Three teenagers were murdered by HAMAS (an Islamist organization) simply because they were Jewish. The boys were not "soldiers" or "settlers". In Palestinian news outlets it was reported that they were soldiers or settlers and therefore free game. They were kids. One was an American.

Tears for Israel’s murdered teenagers_VIDEO

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From the article:
There’s no question that Israel is located in a very tough and dangerous neighborhood. And these are especially grim days.

The brutality of radical Islamist militias – particularly ISIS – has stunned the world and now threatens the Israel/Syria border of the Golan Heights.

To the north, Lebanon is reeling from deadly explosions and increasing threats of violence, thanks to warring Sunni and Hezbollah (Shia) fighters. ,,,

Meanwhile, a rocket assault from Gaza on Israel’s war-torn southern city of Sderot blew up a factory on Saturday night, sending flames and acrid smoke towering into the sky.

It would have been understandable for Israelis to have forgotten at least momentarily the fate of three young teenage boys -- Gil-Ad Shaer, Naphtali Fraenkel and Eyal Yifrach – who were kidnapped by terrorists on June 12.

Understandable, perhaps. But not in Israel. In fact, for 18 days, nothing has been closer to the Israeli people’s thoughts and prayers.

Even Americans with ties to the Jewish State sometimes fail to grasp the sense of extended family that exists within Israel.

And apart from out-and-out war, nothing strikes at the heart of the Israeli people more than terrorists doing harm to their children.

Not surprisingly, after the news of the kidnapping first broke, the hashtag #BringBackOurBoys immediately appeared on social media in both English and Hebrew, and similar posts continue day after day.
...On Monday night, Israel time, the news everyone dreaded was announced in a press conference: “The IDF confirms bodies of 3 kidnapped teenagers found near Hebron.”

The Times of Israel reported, “The bodies were found at about 5pm, partially hidden in an open field. The parents were informed on Monday evening that the bodies had been found.”

After enduring more terrorist attacks than can be numbered, Israel has faced yet another body count – small in number but enormous in its shattering impact: Three more promising young men, lost to bloodthirsty terrorists."

This video was never seen in America. It is particularly tragic, grotesque and evil because they used a 14 year old boy with disabilities for this operation. 14 year old Suicide Bomber

Where are the Palestinian Mothers? A culture that celebrates kidnapping is not fit for statehood.

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From the article:
Abdo provided a portrait of a suicide bomber as a young man. He had an intellectual disability. He was bullied by classmates who called him "the ugly dwarf." He came from a comparatively well-off family. He had been lured into the bombing only the night before, with the promise of sex in the afterlife. His family was outraged that he had been recruited for martyrdom.

"I blame those who gave him the explosive belt," his mother, Tamam, told the Jerusalem Post, of which I was then the editor. "He's a small child who can't even look after himself."

Yet asked how she would have felt if her son had been a bit older, she added this: "If he was over 18, that would have been possible, and I might have even encouraged him to do it." In the West, most mothers would be relieved if their children merely refrained from getting a bad tattoo before turning 18.

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From the article:
Here's my question: What kind of society produces such mothers? Whence the women who cheer on their boys to blow themselves up or murder the children of their neighbors?

Well-intentioned Western liberals may prefer not to ask, because at least some of the conceivable answers may upset the comforting cliché that all human beings can relate on some level, whatever the cultural differences. Or they may accuse me of picking a few stray anecdotes and treating them as dispositive, as if I'm the only Western journalist to encounter the unsettling reality of a society sunk into a culture of hate

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From the article, and this goes for all Islamists:
As for the Palestinians and their inveterate sympathizers in the West, perhaps they should note that a culture that too often openly celebrates martyrdom and murder is not fit for statehood, and that making excuses for that culture only makes it more unfit. Postwar Germany put itself through a process of moral rehabilitation that began with a recognition of what it had done. Palestinians who want a state should do the same, starting with the mothers.

This video is aimed at recruiting young English speakers who have already converted to Islam and are confused at all the different groups. This is a particularly virulent and dangerous branch. If you think this is obscure and isolated, you are wrong. There are hundreds of articles I don't even post here.

This video is an example of a voice under the thrall of Islam. Similar to any and all cult riffs. Here are the common denominators.

1) A disgust for the world as a place of sin and evil from which one should escape.
2) A promise to enter a pure world, entrance to a sort of paradise
3) Access to the purest and "real" teachings of God and his "real" teachers, scholars who know the "real" truth (especially English speakers in this case).
4) A warning to avoid the false teachers and only listen to their guy.
5) A promise of a "true" brotherhood and that they are the "cool" ones to follow.
6) A disdain for sexuality, especially homosexuality.

Same old story. Different cult.
Only this one believes in killing Jews, Christians, and all "unbelievers".
They also believe that lying is a holy duty. Taqiyya

Former Australian Rapper Refers Converts to Islam to Al-Awlaki

To negotiate both parties must be capable of reasonable stability over
time. But Muslim groups constantly mutate. Succession is based on
perceived suitability, rather than rules of election.

Just a few generations after Mohammed's death, a great succession
dispute arose and resulted in the Sunni vs Shia schism.

All this over a thousand years before Israel existed to be blamed.

Right now Sunni and Shia are killing each other in Iraq.

Sunni are killing Shia in Pakistan.

Purist Deobandi and Wahabi are persecuting Sufi muslims and bombing shrines and
khanqs in Pakistan.

And in earlier days, Sufi leaders were known to be bandits (Arminius Vambery, Journeys in Turkestan) and in the Russian Caucasus, Naqshibandi sufis waged
war against the Tsarist armies -- giving lie to the notion that Sufism
equals peace and love. Not always.

In Shia Iran during the 19th century, someone became convinced he was
the promised prophet and created the Bahai movement.

There are the sub groups of Ismailis, Druze, Alawi and Ahmadis.

Too numerous for mention.

Though inspired by claims to return society to
a pristine and morally pure caliphate, once that caliphate
was brought into existence, its leaders would know the jihadists
to be a destabilizing force and suppress most of them.

The remainder, accustomed to a life of constant opposition would
soon find their Califate to be boring and a disappointment to their hopes.

And, if Paradise exists and jihadists enter it, Corboy dares speculate
that they would soon grow bored in Paradise, start a war there, and
be ejected.

Creative culture and stable institutions cannot be created if one despises this world and this life.

Note that leaders of suicide bomber groups take care not to don the vests
or drive the trucks.

The leaders keep themselves safe while using the minds and bodies of others.

Using and disposing of these martyrs like spent bullet casings.

Is paradise worth more than this breathing life, lived in bodies amid
our breathing neighbors?

If one party of negotiation regards paradise worth more than this life, and the other negotiating party regards this life and civil institutions as meaningful
and worthy, there is no common ground.

Throughout history mass ascetic movements ( Christian flagellants, migrations of begging ascetics all societies)have turned into destabilizing
forces that erode day to day routines -- such as getting crops harvested on time.

Very soon in India, renunciates organized into communities.
The large crowds of hermits and noisy ascetics in the early Christian
world were eventually organized into monastic orders - by Basil of Caesarea
in the East, by Benedict in the West.

The Christian poverty movements of medieval europe were organized into
the Friar movement started by Francis of Assisi.

The Flagellants became such a destabilizing threat that the authorities,
finally suppressed them by force.

In the Islamic world many who felt conflicted about the growing wealth
and routinization of pious life in the Abbasid period became ascetics. Some
went even further and by the 11th century very many became wandering
dervishes who openly mocked society and its pious conventions.

Governments and religious authorities eventually organized many dervishes into
existing sufi orders.

One had to get crops harvested on time and large and unpredictable groups of
heaven intoxicated young males were recognized as both inspirational and
potentially dangerous unless given outlets in supervised groups.

Todays jihadist movements have lasted as long as they have because
food surpluses exist -- a felicity made possible by the innovations of
modern life--the same modern life they dispise.


Because a Islamic government aiming at world domination would require
stabie institutions to remain in existence.

Once the jihadists brought such a calphate into existence, they would
be suppressed as disruptive and subversive.

And because there is no such thing as perfect purity, disagreement and
succession disputes would erupt within this pristine caliphate.

Which is what happened within a couple of generations after the death
of Mohammed -- the split between the Sunni and the Shia.

When looking at the situation between Palestine and Israel, it reminds me rather of the 'troubles' in Ireland.

Lots of pain and hurt on both sides and for the most part neither side in the dispute has always held the moral high ground.

We are rightly horrified by the death of three teenage Israeli boys .These deaths have already been followed by a sixteen year old Palestinian teenager being pulled off the street away from his family, and burned alive, apparently as revenge. This was reportedly done by a far right Jewish group.

The beating of the Palestinian teenagers' cousin (who is reported as being an American citizen) by Israeli police has apparently been caught on tape. Handcuffed and prone, he was beaten unconscious.

Israel has commenced demolishing the homes of families of people whose relatives have been involved in killings. The reason for this is that the Israeli government says that suicide bombers have their families compensated with money, and this levels the playing field. Human rights groups say however that 'collective punishment ' for people who have not been involved in the crime is a violation of international law.

The children whose homes have been destroyed often end up with psychological problems. And of course some may end up growing up to be suicide bombers themselves.

The whole situation is heartbreaking and not black and white.

Having said that ,like most Westerners I'd much prefer to live under Israeli law than Sharia law with its massive violations of female human rights.

But I think that understanding the fact that cruelties are being perpetrated by both sides is the only fair way to look a the situation between Palestine and Israel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 12:17AM by yasmin.

Denial of Israel's right to exist as a state, with duties to protect all its citizens is denied by many of the groups causing trouble.

That is the sticking point.

In many US cities, local governments have had to tear down large homeless encampments when these have become crime magnets.

And there are no shortage of self selected homeless advocates to cry foul.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 01:18AM by corboy.

Corboy, in your statement above, you seem to suggest that the "groups causing trouble' are those who deny Israel its statehood.

To me the groups causing trouble are those on both sides who kill children for political ends.

The Palestinian group who killed three Israeli teenagers, AND the Israeli group that burned a Palestinian teenager to death.

All four deaths are terrible tragedies, and none are made acceptable by the religion or culture of the victims.

My heart goes out to all four families dealing now with terrible loss.

I am a great believer in a two state solution for that area.

But killing children of either nationality to make a point, or for revenge, should never be the answer.

Not sure whose quote this is?
"Beware that when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster"

so easy to slip into seeing the "other side" as "less than", in fact depending on how badly you have been hurt by the other side, it can be very hard not to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 07:57AM by yasmin.

Yasmin,
The topic of this thread is about what I term as an "Islamic Pan Uber Cult", a cult whose violent designs are affecting the whole world. It is not about the Arab/Israeli conflict except where Islam has played a role as a cult. There are other threads that cover Jewish cults on the forum.

To review this aspect:
1) Cults do not support open debate or criticism of their views
2) Cults control information to and from followers and the outside world (see Pallywood links below)
3) Cults say one thing within the cult and another to the outside world (What Palestinian leaders say to the western press in English is often quite different than what they say in Arabic. see: Palestinian Media Watch )
4) Cults can rationalize and justify the most insane and even violent behaviors. (e.g., the call for killing people of different religious group or sect and revenge and honor killings)
5) Cults encourage and often reward followers for lying and spreading disinformation (See Pallywood links below)
6) Cult propaganda goes beyond typical political propaganda by infusing it with divine attributes and purpose (e.g, Fatwahs and Jihad)
7) Cult adherents who go against the accepted narrative are punished.Death Threats for Two Pro-Israeli Muslim Teens

Regarding your comments I would like to point out that the western media has made irresponsible claims regarding the Arab boy who was kidnapped and murdered. Irresponsible because the investigation of the crime has not been completed. see: Israeli PM Netanyahu orders investigation of "reprehensible murder," instructs investigators to "work as quickly as possible" Israeli officials quick to condemn murder of Palestinian boy, unlike the PA, which has not yet issued an official condemnation of the murder of the three Israeli teens

Throughout the conflict between Israel and the PLO, Fatah, and Hamas there has been a phenomenon called "Pallywood". More on that later.

Here is a back story you did not hear in the USA or mainstream media regarding the Arab boy. When the footage showing the boy being kidnapped was released by the police (you can not clearly see who is shoving whom into a car) Jews were automatically blamed. The mother initially reported that the boy was kidnapped by Jews in a black car (the car in the video is white). The father initially reported that his son was kidnapped by other Arabs. Later he changed his story. The couple are divorced. The family has a history of problems with the police. (Just a side note; Palestinians also serve on the police force in Israel, but no Jews serve in any capacity in Gaza, Jenin, or Ramalla).

The abduction occurred during the funeral of the 3 boys. Though not impossible, it is unlikely that radical religious Jews would seek revenge until after the funeral. The whole country was in mourning.

It does not fit for other reasons. Revenge killings such as this; kidnapping, stabbing and burning someone alive for political purposes is just not Jewish style. It is however, Islamic style. There were reports that this may have been an honor killing because the boy was a homosexual or that it had to do with the family's involvement in crimes and drugs. (Honor killings are a problem in the Palestinian areas and illegal in Israel).

The world outcry and sympathy for the three boys was astonishing. In the past few years there have been several other murders of innocent youths and families I am sure you do not know about. They were not widely publicized, nor did they galvanize Israel and the world like these three boys. I guess because it has come on the heels of the kidnapped girls in Nigeria, even using the famous hashtag #Bring Back Our Girls to #Bring Back Our Boys.

This story backfired. The Islamic propaganda machine is not used to people giving a shit about what happens to Jews in Israel. If they are religious they are automatically labeled as "right wing" or "settlers" who probably deserved their fate. This attitude of course is not worthy of any civilized human being, but is somehow adopted. So it is possible that just as the murder of the three boys was an attempt to serve nationalistic purposes, the timing of the murder of young Abu, and the beating of his (coincidentally American cousin) could also be purposeful in swaying world opinion back to the victimization of Palestinians. The murder of young Abu could have been done by fellow Arabs.

Did you know that after hearing about the kidnappings of the three Jewish boys that celebrations in Palestinian areas broke out with cheers and the passing out of sweets (which also happened after 9-11) with Facebook and Instagram photos of smiling children and adults putting up three fingers to signify the boys. So this is just not me being cynical. The death of the Arab boy was not celebrated in Israel.

The fact remains that the police are still investigating and do not know who committed the crime yet. The mother accused the Jews and the western media took that for fact. Bad journalism.

Just to make things crazier, there was an editorial in a Hamas paper that claims that the Murder Of Palestinian Teen In Jerusalem Reminiscent Of Jews' Custom Of Baking Matzos With Blood Of course this will not be reported in the media because it doesn't jive with the poor Palestinian narrative in the west.

The video shown all across the internet of the Policeman beating of Abu's alleged cousin still has not been verified as authentic. There have been at least 44 attempted kidnappings of Israelis in the last 18 months that have been thwarted. Many of perpetrators use disguises such as pretending to be an orthodox Jew, an Israeli soldier, or a policeman! Faking news is not uncommon with the Palestinians. They have a whole industry in place, paid for by the PA. If that video is true, the policeman will be investigated and punished according to the law.

The punishment for Israelis engaged in terror activities is quickly and harshly dealt with. Israeli citizens can be arrested just for incitement of violence towards the Palestinians. Incitement on Facebook and social media is not tolerated. Since the death of the three boys there have been many warnings on the radio, television, and social media to not incite hatred or violence. No such warning, punishment or laws exist in Arab areas if you threaten Jews. In fact you are rewarded and children are taught to hate Jews and Israel in their school books.

We may never know who killed the young Arab boy or why. It is as tragic as the deaths of the 3 teens. The difference is that the ones who killed the 3 Jewish teens are celebrated and protected from justice by the Palestinians. P.A. leader Abbas even stated publicly that he would not help to find the boys. If it turns out that Jews killed Abu Khdeir, it will not be celebrated. The perpetrator will be punished and Israel will feel deep shame.

This "tit for tat" story has been irresponsibly spread throughout the world without the investigation even having been completed! But for Israelis and Jews, this is not new. Here is another point about Islam being a cult. While Israel has a free press (which is extremely self critical), no such freedom of press exists in Islamic controlled countries, including the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.

What Really Happens in Palestinian Media: Pallywood

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http://www.theaugeanstables.com/reflections-from-second-draft/pallywood-a-history/
DEFINITION

The term “Pallywood” refers to the staging of scenes by Palestinian journalists in order to present the Palestinians as hapless victims of Israeli aggression. They are able to succeed in this endeavor in large part due to the credulity and eagerness of the Western press to present these images, which reinforce the image of the Palestinian David struggling valiantly against the overpowering Israeli Goliath. Pallywood has led to astonishing lapses in Western journalistic standards in which badly staged scenes regularly appear on the news as “real events.”

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http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=8485
In the classic battle for information, the media tends to quickly endorse the Palestinians, not the credibility of the IDF. On this battlefield, the IDF must not wait. It must bring forth the information as soon as it has it...

The public diplomacy arena has become complex and complicated. Non-government organizations have taken the place of countries or international organizations. They can leverage events without any diplomatic restrictions on the Internet and beyond it, embarrassing Israel.

CNN Retracts Pallywood Footage

Pallywood Settles Out of Court

Pallywood: A History

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Interesting Side Note
Here is a report of a Judge dismisses credibility of Palestinian Media Watch testimony. This happened in an Israeli court where incitement is taken very seriously. The ruling was in favor of the Palestinians. This would not happen in the PA or any Islamic controlled country. Just saying...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 03:38PM by Vera City.

Please avoid a political argument that is not relevant to the discussion at this message board.

Let's not have a flame ware here about the nature of Middle East conflicts.

This is Why We Were Force to Read "The Crucible" in High School. Same old story, new religion... History repeats itself under Sharia... The Riyadh Jinn Trials.

The Persecution of Witches, 21st-Century Style

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From the article:
In 2011, courts in Saudi Arabia sentenced a man and a woman, in separate cases, to beheading after convictions for sorcery. In 2013, Saudi courts sentenced two Asian housemaids to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison on charges of casting spells against their employers.

A Lebanese television psychic, Ali Hussain Sibat, was arrested in 2008, while on pilgrimage to Medina, by the Saudi religious police for hosting a television show in his native Lebanon, “The Hidden,” where he would make predictions and prescribe love potions and spells. After an outcry by Amnesty International and others, the Saudi courts stayed Mr. Sibat’s execution by beheading, but sentenced him in 2010 to a 15-year prison term.

As in Africa, the wave of anti-witch activity in Saudi Arabia is fairly new. The Saudi religious police devised an Anti-Witchcraft Unit in 2009, resulting in the arrests of 215 alleged “conjurers” in 2012. Some observers attribute this sudden interest in witchery to the royal family’s attempts to appease its religious inquisitors by keeping them busy targeting a handful of vulnerable individuals.

Saudi Arabia's War on Witchcraft

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From the article:
Under Wahhabi doctrine, magic is seen as a serious affront to the pure and exclusive relationship one is supposed to share with Allah.

But belief in the supernatural and magic is actually quite common in Muslim culture. According to the Quran, the jinn are demonic supernatural beings that were created out of fire at the same time as man. Some believe that jinn have the power to cause harm, and it is not uncommon for the possessed to visit faith healers or sorcerers tasked with ridding the evil... According to the Pew survey, the majority of Muslims agree that Islam restricts making contact with jinn or using magic....

Belief in magic is so widespread that it is often invoked as a defense in Sharia courts. "If there's an employer dispute -- say the migrant domestic worker claims she wasn't paid her wages or her conditions are unlivable -- a lot of times what happens unfortunately is the defendant makes counterclaims against the domestic worker," Coogle said. "And a lot of times they'll make counterclaims of sorcery, witchcraft, and that sort of thing."