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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: July 20, 2006 09:04PM

Hezballah was elected Democratically by the Palestinians. Is democracy really the answer/ cure for terrorism and cult activity on a massive scale?

Right after the Palistinian Authority agreed to accept Israel's right to exist and Israel pulled out of Gaza, Israel gets attacked on two fronts! Is there no doubt that Hezballah is a massive cult? Along with Hamas and Fatah, al Queda, etc throughout the Middle East. Can you imagine if any other cult in the USA had the fire power and ambition and political clout that Hezballah has?

When dealing with such a mass brainwashing like Nazism or Islamofascism, is war and violence the only answer possible? One cult leader is killed and another rises to take its place.

It's one thing to liberate one member from a cult, but how do you liberate a civilization?

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 21, 2006 01:30AM

Germany, Japan and other countries such as Russia move on after totalitarian regimes lost power.

Today's Germany and Japan are little like the countries or cultures/civilations they essentially replaced.

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: July 21, 2006 03:07AM

Quote
rrmoderator
Germany, Japan and other countries such as Russia move on after totalitarian regimes lost power.

Today's Germany and Japan are little like the countries or cultures/civilations they essentially replaced.

Good point. But how do totalitarian regimes or mass cults lose power? The PA was replaced by a more fanatical group Hizbollah.

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 21, 2006 04:05PM

Japan and Germany were defeated through war and the Russians and Poles grew tired of the regimes that ruled over them and revolted.

Perhaps the Palestinians will grow weary of the life they have and seek further alternatives.

Hopefully the resolution to unrest within the Middle East will be as peaceful as possible and be acheived through negotiations and elections.

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: Kastlefeer ()
Date: August 02, 2006 05:57AM

Since this thread brings up the question of a tie between examples of fascism of old and unrest in the middle east I've decided to post a link to some media I've just recently seen.

Disclaimer: It's a one sided presentation, demagoguery even. It's also got slick production(do not be dazzled heh), and a fair bit grizzly at times.

[video.google.com]

I would love to see a rebuttal to the content within. If anything it illustrates what people are talking about when they say 'islamo-fascism', or it attempts to in any case.

About my caution, using the word demagoguery; the documentary is supplied by honest reporting dot com. A decidedly pro-isreal entity who's google description is thus: HonestReporting: a fast-action website that monitors Mideast media bias and ensures that Israel receives fair worldwide press coverage.
honestreporting.com/

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: kageki ()
Date: August 07, 2007 06:03AM

It's just absurd to call these organizations outright as cults when the whole mideast conflict is far more complicated then what you make out.

Hezbollah, Hamas and most Arabs still have a problem with the existence of the state of Israel along with the numerous human rights violation that Israel commits. Palestine is an occupied territory and Israel continues to bulldoze entire houses with occupants in them. Why don't you bring that up too?

Why not look into the Likud party or the Zionist movement as well? According to this website Aish Ha Torah is considered a cult which is endorsed by the Israeli government and runs a political activist group called Hasbara Fellowships.

The main goal of Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden has always been to get rid of American presence in the mideast. Specifically to get rid of US military bases and soldiers on their soil. How many of you realize that the US has close to 200 military bases around the world? How many foreign military bases are there in the US? These organizations are pretty much a direct response to US foreign policy. I suppose the CIA induced overthrow of Mossadegh was an act of altruism or something?

If you honestly believe that Arabs are always in the wrong and never Israel then YOU are the one brainwashed by the Israel lobby and their strangehold over the media. You can simply start by looking up the very definition of terrorism. How do you classify one as terrorist organization or not?

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: August 14, 2007 11:44PM

>Hezbollah, Hamas and most Arabs still have a problem with the existence >of the state of Israel along with the numerous human rights violation that >Israel commits.


They "have a problem" because Mohammed had a problem with Israel and Jews because they did not accept him as a prophet. This stuff goes way back before '48. If Muslim countries (and European as well, of course) hadn't been so cruel to their Jewish populations, there wouldn't be an Israel. Where is your outrage over the historical treatment of non-muslim minorities in Muslim countries?

>According to this website Aish Ha Torah is considered a cult which is >endorsed by the Israeli government and runs a political activist group >called Hasbara Fellowships.

True, Israel, like all countries, has its unsavory aspects. However, none of these cults that I am aware of are openly calling for the death of non-believers in the way that "protestors" in the Muslim world are. I also do not see radical Jewish groups burning American flags and promising MY death as an American and an infidel.

>The main goal of Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden has always been to get >rid of American presence in the mideast.

Actually, the main goal of AQ, stated specifically on many occasions, is to first reclaim lands that Islam had previously conquered by the sword, like Spain for instance, then eventually create a worldwide caliphate that will impose sharia law on the whole world. If the US leaves the region tomorrow, that goal will not change. That being said, I personally support a withdrawal of most troops from Iraq.

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: kageki ()
Date: August 15, 2007 08:03AM

Quote
shakti
They "have a problem" because Mohammed had a problem with Israel and Jews because they did not accept him as a prophet. This stuff goes way back before '48. If Muslim countries (and European as well, of course) hadn't been so cruel to their Jewish populations, there wouldn't be an Israel. Where is your outrage over the historical treatment of non-muslim minorities in Muslim countries?

What do you mean by Israel in this case? You're right it does go way back. Jews feel the land of Palestine is their biblical right and because of this continue to participate in ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Do you still honestly believe that Jews had nothing to do with the way they were treated? Jews after all are the "chose ones" and have even stated their genetic superiority over the rest of us.

[www.wintersonnenwende.com]

[en.wikipedia.org]

"The treatment of Jews in Muslim lands was generally better than that in Europe. As a result, many Jews sought refuge in Muslim ruled Middle East and North Africa (Maghreb) from persecution in Europe."

Don't forget that the Jews also didn't accept Jesus. In fact they had him crucified.

Quote

True, Israel, like all countries, has its unsavory aspects. However, none of these cults that I am aware of are openly calling for the death of non-believers in the way that "protestors" in the Muslim world are. I also do not see radical Jewish groups burning American flags and promising MY death as an American and an infidel.

Unsavory? Sure I agree that bulldozing entire communities with occupants in them is certainly unsavory amongst other things.

[web.amnesty.org]

The reason you don't see Jewish groups burning American flags is because the US supports Israel. Again like a typical blind American you have absolutely no idea how much the US and UK governments had meddled in middle eastern affairs like the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh. He had to go off course because he tried to stop BP from reaping the benefits of their oil.

[www.democracynow.org]


Quote

Actually, the main goal of AQ, stated specifically on many occasions, is to first reclaim lands that Islam had previously conquered by the sword, like Spain for instance, then eventually create a worldwide caliphate that will impose sharia law on the whole world. If the US leaves the region tomorrow, that goal will not change. That being said, I personally support a withdrawal of most troops from Iraq.

Ok I won't argue about that being their main goal, but isn't it silly to ignore all the other points they have made?

Bin Laden's letter:
[observer.guardian.co.uk]

Ahmadinejad's letter to George W. Bush
[en.wikipedia.org]

Have you actually read the entire letter?

It might not stop the main goals of Al Qaeda, but you can imagine that most of the terrorist attacks will actually stop. After US withdrawal, the rest of the sane Muslims will most likely put an end to the madman called Bin Laden.

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: August 15, 2007 11:11PM

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kageki
[ After US withdrawal, the rest of the sane Muslims will most likely put an end to the madman called Bin Laden.

This makes no sense. If they want us to leave and consider Bin Laden a "madman", why not deal with him now or hand him over to us? Also, we're not going to assume "most likely" and trust in that.

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Hezballah attacks Israel
Posted by: kageki ()
Date: August 16, 2007 03:34AM

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shakti
Quote
kageki
[ After US withdrawal, the rest of the sane Muslims will most likely put an end to the madman called Bin Laden.

This makes no sense. If they want us to leave and consider Bin Laden a "madman", why not deal with him now or hand him over to us? Also, we're not going to assume "most likely" and trust in that.

Actually the Afghans did basically hand over Bin Laden and told the US where he was hiding. Don't you remember Kerry criticising Bush for letting Bin Laden go in Tora Bora? Do you realize that the US government has repeatedly stifled the investigations by our own terrorist fighter, John O'Neil, who's first day on the job at WTC was coincidentally 9/11 and died? How about the fact that Bush disbanded the CIA's Bin Laden unit? Our own government is not really pursuing him.

My understanding is that Bin Laden is considered a fringe extremist. Kind of like Pat Robertson. Do you take Pat Robertson seriously? Probably not but he's given a voice which does not necessarily represent the people.

The problem is that most of us have been saturated by media/propaganda that is controlled by the Jewish Lobby so we really have no good understanding of the people in the middle east. You are just going on assumptions which is a bad place to start. We just know so little of what the majority of Muslims really think.

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