My friend told me about this forum after they inadvertently came across it while researching the school. They were curious to find out more about where I spend two weeks out of each year attending courses and meditating, as I have done for the last 15 years. They were concerned and distressed about these posts. I write because in my years as a student of this school, these have not been my experiences.
   
I have personally gotten a lot out of the school and haven’t experienced any of what’s posted in this forum. I have only found the school’s admin team and teachers to have more integrity and experience than a lot of the spiritual schools and teachers that are currently out there, places that I have personally encountered in my 40 years of exploring spirituality.
 
A couple years ago I had to take leave and skip courses at the school that I usually attend due to a death in the family. I did not experience any pressure to attend, and was only met with understanding and compassion. I received a full refund.

I am never pressured to attend courses. I am never forced to make donations to the school, to do work or labor, or to choose between the school and my family/friends. I simply attend two courses each year if I choose, pay the (very reasonable) fee to attend, and that’s it until the next year.

I have a longtime partner of 20 years that is not involved in the school. I am not pressured to leave him, and he is never pressured to join. I have other lifelong friends that aren’t in the school and likely never will be. I live a normal life, with other interests, spiritual and otherwise that are not connected to the school in any way. So the suggestion here that the school is as a cult leaves me feeling that the school is being misrepresented. 

I actually find many of the postings here to be quite alarming because they are stating facts with no proof, backing or evidence. Statements that are harmful in themselves, misleading, and seem to be -at times- driven by a personal agenda beyond what’s being stated. I have not seen or heard evidence of the claims here. Not through my direct experience, not by those that I have met that have taken courses once, several times or over many of years.

 
I am also concerned because it is my opinion that many of these posts create false concerns among the friends and families of students that have been or may be studying with the school and receive a great deal. I am hoping to portray a balanced counter-viewpoint to some of the more outlandish and unsubstantiated statements made on this forum.

 
Honestly, I feel my relationships, my spiritual health, and my happiness have only been improved by the practices I’ve found in the school. They have enhanced a lot of aspects of my life in many ways, so I am saddened to see some of the posts here about the school, some of which seem to be aimed at hurting the school.

Too bad there isn’t a forum for people to share success stories. It would bring a greater perspective about what the school is actually like.

this is propaganda, plain and simple.

People have lied to and abused innocent people at the school and there is massive abuse there.

Words in favour of clairvision written by fresh accounts on this forum are probably the lies of people who are premeditating deceptions in an attempt to. begin advertising for the school and may simply be accounts run by the school's leading members.

please be warned before you believe the statements of people who advocate for the school. I know people who were badly fucked over for life at clairvision and there was nothing done about it at all aside from gaslighting and alienation to keep their mouths shut.

the school is abusive and anyone who reads the novels will know it is a high demand organization that expects its students to believe in things Samuel said and those things are far too radical for people to be reasonably expected to handle.

never mind the cluster fuck scenarios isis has brought into people's lives, like people committing suicide or having psychotic breaks after doing clairvision work and then getting thrown out or alienated for it too no less! Of course the suicides were covered up... "but that's the nature of ISIS, it can make you unstable, things have to get worse before they get better and we can't predict what will happen in a given student's process"

what about the people fucking other people's wives and husbands to engage their "predator character" or SAMUEL fucking his students?

is all that stuff ok too?

Yes, there may be success stories at the school, but they advertise that on their website all the time, and never do they ever invite the legion of ex students to come forward and have a say, to be given the blessing of leading members so that they, the students who feel wronged, can come forward with the certainty that they will be welcomed so they can share their side of the story.

the school already puts out its success stories, it's called advertising and the school makes all kinds of high level claims right on its website.

It's like Samuel said in KT Foothills of the Great Mountain "It raises the voltage of consciousness as promised on... the front page of our website"

That's a blatant admission that the school advertises, made by its founder. Clairivison advertises its success stories all the time, and when I was a proud and loyal, dutiful member, I would even tell my friends "it's right on the front page of our website."

You do the math.

I find it interesting and quite dismissive to label my post as propaganda and to attack my post because it doesn’t fit with the current narrative here about the school.

I don't want to discount or diminish anyone’s needs to share a negative experience. And I understand that people have strong feelings about those experiences. I would hope that my positive experiences could be met with the same level of reception.

I have really taken the time to read and digest all that has been shared in this forum and make sense of it in contrast to my own interactions and dealings with the school. I find it troublesome that people can post here and make outlandish claims of suicide and coverups without providing any verifiable facts.

The problem when we squash alternative voices that share different experiences is that we risk creating an echo chamber, and it's like voices happening in a vacuum.

Once again, I am writing in hopes of contributing my voice about a school where there has been much to gain so that readers can evaluate for themselves.
 

I would have defended the school in much the same way while I was there. It wasn't till I was fully out that I really started to think about the abuses going on there in a different light, so I'm not surprised at the way some of the more recent posts defend the school.

I will say that anyone who says they haven't seen these kind of things going on at the school who has been part of the school for as many years as they claim to be in their posts either really isn't paying attention to their fellow students, or is just really good at compartmentalizing. When I was all-in when it came to clairvision, I remember seeing these type of things and just writing them off as part of the spiritual development process, so, again, not that surprising to hear these kind of statements from people who are still in the school.

I do have proof of some of these things that have been written here, but sharing them means exposing people who have already been victimized by the school yet again, so even if it does provide proof that these things really do happen, it doesn't actually help the people who have been harmed - it really just puts them in harms way yet again, and there's absolutely no way I'm willing to do that. Posting here for me is about preventing more harm from happening to people, not causing more.

What I don't see from cv proponents demanding proof are the pieces of proof they could provide - like Samuels medical credentials and awards he claimed to have. Perhaps a birth certificate with Samuel Sagans real name on it, or any of the number of things claimed on the website about Samuel's background. Proof goes both ways here as far as I'm concerned.

I remember feeling the way OakLight felt before, too. I read this forum while I was still in the school, and when you're in the cultic mindset, it's almost impossible to see another perspective.

OakLight's biggest concern is the perception of their friends and family, rather than the dozens of anecdotes that state harm (red flag #1).

I knew the first time I read this, before leaving, that a number of things on this forum really happened. I understood that people operating within an 'ordinary' schema would see Samuel having sex with his students as problematic. But within the cultic schema, Samuel was awakened so nothing he could do was wrong, and there must have been a higher purpose for it since he could see their timelines, etc.

OakLight's friends and family are right to be concerned about what has been posted here, and I think the biggest indicator of OakLight's cultic indoctrination is the immediate dismissal of their concerns and how quick they were to defend the school without acknowledging any validity to these claims (reg flag #2).

Instead, OakLight is 'saddened' and thinks people here are attempting to 'hurt' the school, when the goal here is to share experiences and prevent others from further harm.

I suspect OakLight is one of the foundation wave students who isn't involved in operations, instructing, living on property, etc. I think this segment of attendees actually is less impacted, as they are not as deeply enmeshed within the cult dynamic. It's true—there is less pressure placed on those who just want to attend for a week or two out of the year.

Still, it's not okay to invalidate the abuses others have experienced.

To OakLight's friends and family (or anyone else reading this with a loved one who is 'in'): Please know that telling someone they're in a cult is a very ineffective form of intervention. Consult a cult intervention specialist instead. Telling someone they're in a cult usually results in them 'digging their heels in' deeper and can cause greater harm and alienation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2025 06:56AM by bornyesterday.