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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: oneclickwonder ()
Date: December 02, 2022 03:48PM

wow. overland traveller. that's a lot, and great stuff as well.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2022 03:50PM by oneclickwonder.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: oneclickwonder ()
Date: December 02, 2022 03:50PM

Thank you so much for your wonderful contribution. I have found your sharing to be deeply meaningful. I'm so glad you have contributed to the forum so now others can see you're clearly well thought out words. I have found them valuable and helpful to me and I'm sure that others will as well.

overlandtraveler Wrote:
> I am sitting here in my kitchen at the table,
> considering what to write, as I have had so many
> varying experiences with the Clairvision School
> (CVS) and Samuel directly.
> A bit about my involvement with the school- I will
> say that I can not give out too much info, as it
> would immediately identify myself and I am not
> ready to be outed. Please, if you do recognize who
> I am, don't out me, but I am more than happy to
> speak to someone via DM, always happy.
> I started with the school, not from the very
> beginning in the 1990's, but I was part of the
> first full training in the U.S., before the New
> York property was purchased, and long before
> Berkeley and Shasta were around, so beginning
> about 2003 until I fully left in 2012. I met
> Samuel initially in 2004 when he came to the US to
> buy a property and have a full-time training and
> when I met him I fully knew that I needed to work
> with him so that I could learn and grow
> spiritually, as I had been searching for a while
> for a mentor and teacher to help me awaken to my
> latent abilities. I had been working with
> Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner's work (I was
> raised with it), but just reading books left me
> feeling empty, I needed more, I wanted to
> experience the worlds he described in his books,
> and I also had to (later figured out) retrieve a
> piece of my soul that had long ago detached. The
> Samuel I met initially in 2004 compared to the
> Samuel he became in the later years were very,
> very different people, and I fully feel that while
> perhaps the CVS isn't fully a cult, over the years
> it became more and more like one, so that by the
> time I left the school out of disgust and dislike
> for the overall lack of integrity and clarity,
> the school had really jumped the shark.
> Everything that has been written in this forum, I
> have experienced myself, and to watch what was
> happening mostly from the beginning of the
> incarnation of the school in the US was really
> uncomfortable and lacked any ethical/spiritual
> integrity. While some of what has been written, I
> do disagree with, like mediation is hypnosis, that
> the school was new age, and a few other things, I
> did personally witness and or had happen to me,
> physical abuse, trauma abuse, mental and emotional
> abuse and various other scarring events.
> My involvement with the school was always on my
> own terms because I felt there were so many
> ethical and moral issues and never told anyone
> about the school. It was like I saw with higher
> vision that this tool would help me get from A to
> B (funny, I hated meditation actually, and took
> years before I took it seriously, I was all about
> IST/ISIS), I did consciously use Samuel and "the
> work" to learn as much as I could, to further my
> spiritual development and awakening, and later
> learned after a discussion with Samuel a few days
> before he died, that he hindered my development
> intentionally because, in his words, "you could
> easily be more powerful than me if you keep doing
> the work." I was floored, but not surprised. I am
> now working with teachers to enhance my abilities
> and work as a trance medium, but it took the last
> 10 years to work through the very real and
> visceral abuse via the school.
> I was excited when I moved to the school full-time
> in NY to continue my studies and to learn as much
> as I could, and honestly, I did learn a lot. At
> that time, I was on this intense quest to find and
> retrieve my missing part, and did as much IST/ISIS
> as I could, for me past life regression worked
> very well, I still use it with my clients, but
> with clarity, integrity, honor and love. I also
> call it something else and no where do I mention
> Samuel or the school, because I want absolutely no
> affiliation, and really do hope someone is
> investigating the school and will some day call
> them out for the unethical things they are doing.
> It is my opinion that no one who is currently
> running the school and the extended courses like
> the ATE courses, has any business or ability to be
> do so and the school should have died when Samuel
> did. I am not surprised that the abuse has gotten
> seemingly worse because the people who are now in
> charge have no integrity or idea about what they
> are doing, none of them can do what Samuel could
> do, and they don't understand what they are
> teaching. Samuel told me in the conversation I had
> with him at the end that "you always got it
> immediately, I only had to show you once, no
> matter how advanced and you got it, I have never
> had a student who could do follow me like you can"
> What was sad to me was why couldn't he treat me
> with respect and kindness? why couldn't he help me
> and mentor me? I was routinely pushed aside,
> ignored, rejected, laughed at and belittled,
> humiliated and often told that I was not "one of
> the inside team". I was with the school nine years
> and never, ever was told by Samuel anything
> positive or nice. He would routinely truly make me
> wonder if I had any ability, if what I was
> experiencing was real, if I even belonged in the
> school, but my feeling was that until I got
> learned what I needed to, I wasn't leaving and he
> did show me a lot,
> His "'team" of people would often school or tell
> me what I could and couldn't say to people in the
> courses and school, what I needed to change about
> myself, always about how I needed to listen to
> them and take in their criticisms and their
> sometimes obvious hatred or distain for me, and
> this was always under the guise of "reflection".
> After some serious health events made going to
> intensives impossible, I lost all the people I did
> consider friends in the school, which was a
> pattern; don't go to intensives, and you are
> shunned, which is very cult like. I spent years
> with some of these people I considered friends,
> people whom I had gone through some serious shit
> with, and they just disappeared, which really
> hurt. Everyone who I thought was a friend,
> disappeared. I even heard from one person who got
> in touch with me that Samuel told several people
> to not talk to me, which they of course didn't.
> A few years after I left the school I started to
> figure out who and what I was, and it took years
> and years to untangle the false narrative I was
> taught, to learn a different way of working with
> spirit, and to own my power in a healthy way. What
> they push is abuse and also a very narrow way of
> working with spirit, and importantly there are a
> few people (specifically a Singaporean person) who
> are sadistic and very cruel to people under the
> guise of fellowship.
> I do believe Samuel had good intentions when he
> started the school back in the beginning, and even
> when he went about establishing the school in the
> US, but over time became more and more enamored
> with his power, his arrogance and his little ego.
> He chose some of the coldest and most simply cruel
> people to take over his seat, most of them have
> never "made the work, work", have hidden away at
> this school with their perceived power and
> coldness, believing they are demi-gods, and with
> my perception, none, not one of the people who run
> that school have any business doing what they are
> doing. I feel they are going to do severe damage
> to people, they are both power hungry and lazy,
> embodying the arrogance they were taught by their
> teacher, but without his skills and abilities.
> What strikes me the most, and always has, is that
> heart, heartness, kidness and love were rarely if
> ever emphasized in the trainings and teachings.
> That harshness and lack of love and respect was
> very felt in the so called act of "reflection"
> (aka, i am reacting and won't own it) which really
> sits at the heart of the school, if there is one.
> Working with spirit is all about heart and love.
> Without love and light, you have nothing, except
> darkness, and I see and feel that is exactly where
> they are pulling from. Darkness often veils itself
> in "light", and so many are taken down the wrong
> path believing they are working with the light,
> and it is my perception this is what Samuel did in
> the last few years, so have his "team" unknowingly
> been working with very dark and quite frankly,
> very fucked up energies. There is no way back from
> this for them, so either they continue to do what
> they are doing, or if we are lucky, it will
> implode around them.
> I stopped speaking to students and working with
> anything related to Clairvison about 2012, so I am
> unaware of anything that may have happened since
> then. I only spoke to Samuel that last week before
> he died, as we had been in communication regarding
> my health (again, if I disclose what was happening
> it might out me). It was so strange with him, I
> often wonder what our past history was in previous
> lifetimes, as it seemed we had a mutual respect
> while he also ran very cruel and really seemed to
> lack compassion. Honestly. I saw him like this
> with many, many people, not just myself.
> He had one persona for intensives and public
> trainings and he was a totally different person in
> private. He was so mean and very cruel and cold,
> especially to the students he had sex with (again,
> zero integrity), my gods he would destroy them as
> people, and I always wondered why he did that, why
> so cruel? I watched women become anorexic and
> filled with self-hate when they were one of his
> sex partners, then he would throw them away and
> discard them like garbage, and they always ran
> back, fighting over him with each other, and as
> one person mentioned here, one of the women he
> destroyed had followed him for years and years,
> really dedicated her life to him, only to be asked
> to leave and disappear overnight. One day she was
> gone, and no one spoke about it openly. We all
> asked where she was, and I heard she had left
> after Samuel told her to. I mean, she left her
> family and son behind, earned him his US
> Citizenship (green card marriage, which is/was
> very popular in the school, again, ethics) and
> worked so hard to make Lynnskill a livable and
> viable place and business. She was a good person
> with a good heart, a bit kooky, and really nice.
> Always wondered what happened to her, I do hope
> she is well and has had some healing.
> I know I have written a lot about the negatives,
> because this is a forum to unload a lot of that,
> but I did have good and great times too, and to be
> fair, I learned so much, I had experiences I
> wouldn't have had if I hadn't lived in upstate NY,
> which was fantastic, I learned how to work with
> land energies, how to hold myself in my own power
> (maybe because of the abuse), inner clarity and
> vision. and really, I found that piece I had to
> find, brought it back and unloaded a millenia of
> Samskaras that held me back from my true self. For
> that I am grateful to have found and worked with
> the school, and with Jean Paul, which I think was
> Samuel's true first name, saw it once on a credit
> card, but unfortunately never saw the last name
> :(. I loved upstate SO much and would love to move
> back to the Catskills, and I did let go of
> unwanted baggage and learned to live honestly,
> clearly and most of all, I am free.
> I still wonder why I chose to work with the
> school, but I also see how much the rejection and
> distain I felt actually pushed me to find my true
> calling and self, that while the tools of the
> school were what I really loved, the abuse was
> only tolerable because I had a mission. Perhaps I
> could have learned differently with someone else,
> and while meditation is an amazing tool and path
> and I now use it daily, regression therapy helped
> me regain myself, and I haven't found anything
> like it, but only when done with love, compassion,
> intelligence and honest working with spirit.
> If you have made it this far, thank you for
> reading, I know it was long and drawn out. I sat
> with this for a few days before writing to make
> sure I was clear in what I was saying. I am glad
> everyone has a place to come together and talk,
> hopefully doing so will allow for healing.

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