andychee:

No problem.

Look how long this thread is. And some complaints were just linked by Orange on this thread.

The point is repeating the same mantra "AA is a cult" over and over again along with other often misleading statements about "brainwashing."

Actually anti-AA people have posted quite a bit here.

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andychee
I don't see what the big deal is, and why you say we shouldn't talk about bad stuff that happens in AA just because you don't think its a cult.
Mary Kay isnt a cult.
Herbalife isnt a cult. I don't know about Primarica and quixitar, but are they cults?
There are plenty of people telling about how the got used for sex or money and had their heads messed up by being told to work the steps or die, and got shunned if they quit, just like people got shunned if they didn't agree with every thing in Mary Kay, so what is the big deal with AA?
You aren't griping and banning people because they say bad things about Mary Kay, and I never heard of any books about it, but there are lots of books about how people get hurt by AA and lots of doctors and lawyers and educated people who have written about why AA can hurt people.
It just seems to me like you must have some reason for why you get so upset about people writing in and griping about being hurt by AA.

If someone in Mary Kay had a bad relationship with someone I wouldn't blame Mary Kay Inc.

It's is very common for alcoholics to have sex problems such as lust, masturbation and marital infidelity. AA critics attempt to blame that on the AA program rather then hold the individuals responsible for their own behavior which they brought to AA.

Alcoholics come to AA with "messed up heads". Millions testify that AA helped them with their messed up heads.

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This is what colter wrote.
"It's is very common for alcoholics to have sex problems such as lust, masturbation and marital infidelity. AA critics attempt to blame that on the AA program rather then hold the individuals responsible for their own behavior which they brought to AA. "

I never heard that mastur------ was a sex problem. Maybe most religions say its a sin but most doctors and books say its pretty normal if you do it and that every body does it.
I didn't know AA helped with that ether. Does it? I thought AA was just supposed to be about how to stop drinking.

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rrmoderator
Orange:

No you are not a cult expert.

It is not "obvious" that AA is a "cult."

One last time.

Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:

1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

...

AA has no charismatic leader, such as a Rev. Moon, Jim Jones etc.

That must mean Scientology quit being a cult (if it ever was one) 20 years ago when its founder and leader L. Ron Hubbard died. Is that true, or do you, as a cult expert (unlike Orange) still consider Scientology to be a cult even after the death of its founder/leader?

Wow! Sometimes I'm sorry for ever posting here. It seems there is a anti-XA presence that 'uses' the internet.

You know what? I had no idea there was when I first posted here a month or two ago. All I knew was that I felt guilty for stopping my XA meetings, was waiting for a family member to die (jails, institutions, death) and that I felt I had been brainwashed because every time I tried to think independently I was feeling the slogans that had been drilled into me coming in my head. I knew that I had been love-bombed when I first came into the rooms, I had been told to 'find my part' in my rape, and to take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth when I brought up things I had learned in another recovery program without stating it was another recovery program. I know that people who knew me from meetings will avoid me once I left, and that members are talking about how bad off I am simply because I no longer attend, members that haven't even seen me since I left! (I'm doing better than ever thank you very much).

Do I have a beef because XA is "spiritual" or based on the Oxford Program? Only that it doesn't tell people that off the top. I happen to be very religious and have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the following which are seen in many negative groups such as Mary Kay etc:


[list:60c47ff03d]
* Love-bombing
* Shunning
* Overuse of slogans to prevent rational thinking
* Exclusion of other methods
* Using guilt over ones head when no blame should exist
* Close to worship of Bill W (FOB = Friend of Bill, his words will not be altered in the Big Book, the negative that he did such as 13th stepping is denied and so on)
* Statements of brainwashing (IE: My brain needed a good washing) NOTE: If you search online you will see as many pro-XA people use this as well as con.
* Blame bad behavior on the addiction rather than the personality
* Fear of members to leave because of Jails, Institutions or Death even if they are sober for long periods of time or working another program
* Seperation of members and the rest of the world ("normies")[/list:u:60c47ff03d]

These are just problems I have personally seen. They may not make a cult at all, but they do make, I feel, a seriously problematic program.

benbradley:

Already explained in previous post.

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Another leader followed Scientology's founder Hubbard after he died.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

Are you seriously comparing a highly organized and totalitarian group like Scientology to AA?

Wait a minute. You said AA can't be a cult because it doesn't have a living totalatarian leader.
Ben bradley said scientology doesn't have one ether.
He never said AA is like scientology, he just said scientology doesn't have a single leader except one who died. At least not that I saw. He only asked if you still call it a cult even though the leader died. Is it a cult? I never went to it, so I don't know.

anychee:

Please read the previously posted links about Scientology.

Scientology has a living absolute leader, his name is David Miscavige. Miscavige followed Hubbard as leader of the group.

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andychee

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This is what colter wrote.
"It's is very common for alcoholics to have sex problems such as lust, masturbation and marital infidelity. AA critics attempt to blame that on the AA program rather then hold the individuals responsible for their own behavior which they brought to AA. "

I never heard that mastur------ was a sex problem. Maybe most religions say its a sin but most doctors and books say its pretty normal if you do it and that every body does it.

I didn't know AA helped with that ether. Does it? I thought AA was just supposed to be about how to stop drinking.

Frequent masterbation is a symtom of sex addiction.

The brain produces it's own drugs for variuos reasons such as pain managment, flight or fight, pleasure etc.

Ther are similarities between orgasm and the effects of opiates on the brain.

Opiates occupy endorphin receptor sites on the presynaptic terminals of neurons in the central nervous system. In this way opiates mimic the pain-killing and the euphoric effects of our own endorphins. The inference is obveous: endorphins (and the limbic system) are involved in the ecstacy of sexual activity and orgasm.

The rush of endorphins into the central nervous system could also explain the euphoria usually experienced immediatly following orgasm and loss of romantic interest just after sex. ( source "Craving for Extacy" how our passions become addictions and what we can do about them) Harvy Milkman, Stanly Sunderwirth

Colter

"Frequent masterbation is a symtom of sex addiction?"
Who gets to decide how much is too much, the room full of people or just your sponsor and why would any body want to talk to people they hardly know about stuff like that?
If this is the kind of stuff AA wants you to think about and talk about all the time I'm glad i quit. I dont want to hear about it in a room full of people and if anyone thinks I'm going to sit there and tell everybody this kind of stuff and listen to them tell me I'm sick if they think I have sex with myself or someone else too much they're nuts.
This is why my Dad quit a long time ago, and its one of the reasons why I hated AA because they want to tell you that every little thing you do or dont do is wrong and that it means you're sick when they're not even doctors or psychologists. They're just drunks.