Colter:

Barabara was banned.

I really could not find anything in James G.'s post alluding to any hatred of the Christ.

However, the program is promulgating no questioning and absolute obedience: "‘The program knows everything, you know nothing.’ " and constant submission to the program or death: "Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant. His drunkenness and dissolution are not penalties inflicted by people in authority; they result from his personal disobedience to spiritual principles."

This seems to me to be a perversion of our Judeo-Christian heritage and very well puts AA in the category of a cult. this is especially disturbing in light of people being sentenced or compelled to join the program "they will soon find themselves embroiled in a program of conversion designed to get the newcomer to believe in Bill Wilson’s and Frank Buchman’s way of life". I am still finding it hard to believe that this is going on in a free society.

Yteep:

Interesting.

So you think AA should specifically acknowledge Jesus and/or Christianity specifically?

And AA is a "cult" because of its beliefs, or lack of specific beliefs based upon the bible?

AA seemed like a cult to me because they were all "our way or the highway", and "you will die if you don't do it our way" and all these people acted like they were afraid to quit going to meetings because they'd die if they did. And they told me I was going to die if I didn't do it there way.
And I don't think it's right to try to force anyone to believe in God, especially when the judge says to join AA or go to jail.
I already believed in God and I didnt like being told to go listen to some other religion by the judge. Beisdes I don't think its legal for the judge to so that but I didn't have any money to argue about it so I just went and didn't listen, which is what most people have to do from what I saw.

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rrmoderator
Colter:

Barabara was banned.

I'm very sorry to here that. :( I hope I bump into her out in cyber land somewhere.

Colter

No, no I am not trying to imply that AA should acknowledge any religion the Christ or God or Yahweh; the "higher power" covers any "personal God" and that is what they are espousing.

I was writing that I didn't see a previous person saying he hated Jesus (or the Christ or God).

I also was trying to say that I see AA as having a propensity for cultism because certain people are compelled to do the program, people who do the program are told to "take things on faith, not question, etc." and that people indoctrinated into a life-time commitment to an AA program may be being indoctrinated into a cult.

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This seems to me to be a perversion of our Judeo-Christian heritage and very well puts AA in the category of a cult

I'm a student of religious movements and well versed in everything recorded about the teachings of Jesus from the sermon on the mount to his last appearance with the apostles. As an FYI the people in AA that are working the program are doing what Jesus told us to do it's just that we are doing it using different language then the church. In fact I find a sincerity in AA that is greater then the typical church community.

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"they will soon find themselves embroiled in a program of conversion designed to get the newcomer to believe in Bill Wilson’s and Frank Buchman’s way of life". I am still finding it hard to believe that this is going on in a free society.

I would bet that most people in AA don't know who Frank Buchman was and would only be interested in the principles that AA borrowed from the Oxford movement.....which were borrowed from the Bible anyway.

AA owes a debt of gratitude to Bill W and many others. It is fairly common knowledge that Bill was unfaithful in his sobriety and died from acute nicotine addiction. Upon the reading of Bills will GSO discovered that Bill bequeathed 10% of the Big Book royalties to his mistress, apparently with the knowledge and approval of his long time wife Lois.

Bill was no saint and I don't know of anyone who thinks he was. AA principles are universal and can be found across the theological spectrum. Bill and a number of other contributors were able to organize those principles in such a way as to establish a system for overcoming incurable addictions via spiritual transformation. The 12 steps, 12 traditions and 12 concepts of world service are nothing short of spectacular.

What is disturbing is that people who, for whatever reason decide not to get help in AA ,are not content to just leave but launch out on a campaign complete with web sites and a following to slander AA in the most vicious way proving the very contention that AA makes, that being that alcoholics are generally selfish immature people.


Colter

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Bill was no saint and I don't know of anyone who thinks he was. AA principles are universal and can be found across the theological spectrum. Bill and a number of other contributors were able to organize those principles in such a way as to establish a system for overcoming incurable addictions via spiritual transformation.

I have no problem with that. I do have a problem when the organization claims it is not religious

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What is disturbing is that people who, for whatever reason decide not to get help in AA ,are not content to just leave but launch out on a campaign complete with web sites and a following to slander AA in the most vicious way proving the very contention that AA makes, that being that alcoholics are generally selfish immature people.

Why is this disturbing? People post pro-AA pages. The internet is all about freedom of speech.

I have never made an anti-AA page, but I could see why some would, for example the lady that was told to 'find her part' in her own rape. Trust me, she is not the only one who was told she had part responsiblity in a crime like that against her body. It does not make her selfish nor immature.

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I have never made an anti-AA page, but I could see why some would, for example the lady that was told to 'find her part' in her own rape. Trust me, she is not the only one who was told she had part responsiblity in a crime like that against her body. It does not make her selfish nor immature.

I agree with you, that's terrible and a topic which has no place in an AA meeting.

There is nothing anywhere in AA literature which takes such an approach in the context that you presented it. I only know of instances where damaged relationships with others are the focus. Situations where a grudge may exist and one could benefit from fist seeing if they themselves had any part to play in the matter but certainly not rape.

Colter

When I was in AA they said ever time you were mad at some body it was your own fault and that you had to make an amends. I asked what if someone just walked up and kicked you and it pissed you off?
They said then you had to see how that made you afraid and that being afraid was a defect of character so you would have to apologize to the person who kicked you some day later. The guy explained it to me and showed me where it was in the big book, but it seemed stupid to me.
So I just figgured they were wrong and that you could be afraid or pissed off of someone who kicked you until you got over it.

I would never apologize to someone who hurt me and I never did anything to them, but in AA they told me I would have to if I wanted to quit drinking. They were wrong. I never had another drink anyway.