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dwest
Kath, I have shared personal problems I had in XA here, including being asked to find "my part" in a rape.

Respect to you Dwest, it is very courageous of you. I just felt the thread had reached a stalemate and to be reminded of people's negative experiences would show in a more concrete way that AA is a destructive group for some people, regardless of whether it is officially a 'cult'.

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His suicide note was explicit, he was not depressed but he could not take the physical pain anymore.

That is truly shocking. :shock:

"not have an absolute leader and is in fact not rigidly organized around an established hierarchy that exploits its members."
depends what you mean by EXPLOIT.....and its tenets are rigid !!!! however people are free to leave.

"Free to leave" is not a condition that makes a group or individual cult-like or not. Even in LGATs, people are free to leave but the manipulation of weaknesses and strengths encourages them to stay involved until they find relief, success or fulfillment of whatever goal brought them there in the first place.

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greg hamond
"not have an absolute leader and is in fact not rigidly organized around an established hierarchy that exploits its members."
depends what you mean by EXPLOIT.....and its tenets are rigid !!!! however people are free to leave.

People are not free to leave if they're told, and really believe, that if they don't keep going to meetings they'll relapse, be in the gutter etc.

I don't think of AA as a cult.

AA doesn't tell people they can't get sober any other way. They will tell people
that it's the best way known on the planet though.

The 12 Steps are offered as a guideline of suggestions but they aren't
enforced by the law. A person can sit in AA forever without working
any steps at all. Noone tells him to leave.

It's a place that is open 24 - 7 and I know people who have done
quite well attending the program.

It sure beats the alternative of death, a mental institution, prison, or
God knows what else.

Some people take what they like and leave the rest to the point
where they leave the program and apply the steps to their lives
purely on memory.

It takes what it takes and I say, if someone is a recovering alcoholic,
they should do whatever they feel in their heart is the right and best
thing to stay sober.


Dan Smith
Washington

Just a couple of points here, since I think this thread could use a different perspective (it seems to be largely negatively motivated).

According to the moderator on the first page of this thread, AA doesn't meet the criteria for being a cult. Some people here clearly don't like AA, even hate AA, while other people that have posted appreciate it. It seems to me that the the thread has largely been kept alive (as have the assertions elsewhere that AA is a cult) by people ignoring the decision of the moderator, and just repeating ever more loudly and vehemently that it is indeed a cult.

Stating repeatedly that an organization is a cult doesn't mean it is. Stating that it's not doesn't mean it isn't. Look objectively at AA from the outside, it is easy to do. There are no hidden rules, no hidden secret texts, no levels of membership, no conspiracy of silence. Everything published by AA is in the public domain, free to research. As has been pointed elsewhere in these forums, concrete evidence and examples are suggested if you want to make credible accusations. Otherwise, it's just polemic or resentment.

Noone says you have to like AA, and many people find other ways to recover from alcoholism. Good for them! You don't have to belong to a religious faith to be a member of AA. There is no AA-approved definition of God or Higher Power. It is merely suggested that you seek one. At the meetings I've been attending regularly for 14 years (in a University town in Virginia), the religious beliefs of most members could accurately be described as largely atheistic or agnostic. As a vocal agnostic, I can honestly say that in 14 years I've not once been pressured to conform to any form of religous belief. I've met devout Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Traditional Native Americans, and NACs in AA, just to name a few. There is no hidden Christian agenda.

There is no leadership to speak of! Anyone, alcoholic or not, can attend an AA assembly. If you have questions about AA, I'd suggest it. You'll find that we're pretty incredibly disorganized. So disorganized, in fact, that almost nothing ever actually gets done! You won't see much hierarchy or cult-like totalitarian leadership, that's for sure. In addition, there are no dues or fees for membership, the bylaws strictly prohibit the acceptance of money from non-members (yes, that's right, we don't even take donations), and there is even a cap on what the organization will accept as a bequest left in the wills of members (I believe it's $2500).

I know that it is impossible to convince people that have made up their minds, but I'd encourage those who may be on the fence to check what I've posted here for accuracy. I'll end with quoting from the forward to the first edition of the "Big Book." Make up your own mind. Does this sound like a cult to you?

"We are not an organization in the conventional sense of the word. There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone. We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted." (xiii - xiv)