What would you think if your pastor's wife states:
[/quote] "I used to pray for opportunities to have a way to spank my five(children), becaue I knew there was no other way to deal with their need."

Quote

"By three months I expected those chidren to do what I said on that changing table and they did it. And at five months old one of our children insisted on turning around in her stroller and standing in it. I mean somebody had to win. And I did, and I spanked her. You know it was against my concept then to spank a five month old. I turned her around and said, "We're going to sit down now." She just wouldn't listen to me. So I needed to let her know I meant what I was saying. So I took her and I said, "You're going to sit down! Mommy says sit down!" As I was putting her down in the seat I spanked her again. She cried real hard and she never did it again."

:(

As a Christian I believe that the Bible does not instruct us to spank our children. I believe that this is misinterpretation. That is my belief based on my own exegesis of scripture.

As a mother, I cannot understand why someone would desire to hit their children. We do not spank or hit in our household because we believe in respecting our children so that they will respect us. I feel terrible for this families children.

This spanking practice is one of the many control tricks and gimmics employed by the Bill and Patsy Freeman group of Spokane, Wa. I recall this quote from one of the newspaper articles posted on this and other websites discussing "Bill and Patsy Freeman". Allegedly Patsy spoke this in the context of training young mothers within a congregation. Clearly, this is physical abuse.

Patsy Freeman, the psychopatic leader, sounds like another control seeking misfit. She apparently has no conscience and rules her tight knit band in the likes of another Sadaam. Can anyone who spanks her own children in this way actually love them? Is that the way God loves us? Sounds more like a rogue dictator, not a follower of Jesus.

Since Patsy is apparently a pastor's wife, I can only imagine how warped her followers must be. Do they all spank their children because they "have to win?" If this is the case, not only is the term "pastor" being misused, but the word "church" is being used as a facade for abusive relationships. Since Bill and Patsy Freeman remain in hiding and refused numerous requests by reporters, they both appear guilty on all counts.

Raising children is not a matter of "winning" them." The Bible doesn't charge us to spank your children. Simply, we are exhorted to love our children. Where is the "Golden Rule" in practice?

This "pastor's wife" needs to spend time in a mental hospital, not trying to create another cult in Spokane. I also feel terrible that anyone had to endure this form of physical and emotional abuse. Clearly, from these other articles, the Freemans are soundrels.

Cactus

'A five month old is not a child. It is a baby. Anyone should know the difference. A five month old does not have the cognitive ability to comprehend ''sit down''. Therefore the act of standing up in the stroller cannot be viewed as defiance.

There are a number of 'christian' child training books that advocate spanking, in some cases quite extreme. Authors include Roy Lessin, James Dobson, Gary Ezzo and Debi & Michael Pearl. All have strong religious links and use the bible to justify spanking.. There is plenty of material about them if you search on google, supporting and criticising. If you look at the reviews on Amazon you will see ones accusing them of being child torture manuals, baby whipping books etc, and other ones saying they are fantastic and transformed family life. Some of them suggest just this type of treatment of babies.

I remember being told in bible classes that our parents should be spanking us - it was God's word. This was from one of the older teenagers who taught our junior classes. Was I supposed to go home and ask my mother for spankings? In our house you didn’t need to ask, and maybe all the children in that class were in the same position?

At home we had the book written by Roy Lessin and called 'Spanking, Why, When and How'.

It was promoted at my family's church which strongly advocated corporal punishment. Probably, as they did with a number of other books, they bought in bulk and passed on to the church goers.

There is a letter published here from a girl whose family knew Lessin [www.geocities.com]

The Lessin procedure in this letter pretty much as I remember it - cut from the letter cited above , in italics, my comments:



The first step is to use the right instrument; if a parent uses their hand, the child might become fearful of the parent's hand. In our family a flat wooden soled exercise sandal

The second step is to spank promptly.

The third step is to find a private place in which the parent can conduct the spanking.

The fourth step is for the parent to explain to the child why they are going to be spanked. I'd be asked to explain myself, what I had done wrong, which commandemnt I had broken

The fifth step is to get the child into a good spanking position (when my parents and other adults—such as your wife, Char—spanked me, the ritual involved removing the child's clothing); you recommend bending the child over a bed, or bending a smaller child over the parent's lap. In my case over my mothers knee, or over a chair when i was older, and yes, I had to bare my bottom

The sixth step is to hit the child on the buttocks with a stick or other spanking implement.

The seventh step is to continue spanking until the child yields a broken cry, which indicates a broken will. I learned to do this quickly

The eighth step is reconciliation. You recommend that parents comfort the child until sufficient time has passed, and then ask the child to stop crying. You recommend that parents spank a child who displays a "wrong attitude" by continuing to cry too long after a spanking. ` I had to be quiet promptly afterwards, then kneel down for a prayer which my mother would say and I would 'amen' . I had a number of second spankings, presumably for the 'wrong attitude'


Child abuse manuals in my opinion and something I feel strongly enough about to post. There are gullible, desperate people who blindly follow the advice of so called 'respected' leaders published in these books, and promoted at churches such as the one I attended. In many cases, especially now, this kind of treatment is illegal, so why can they publish books promoting abuse, illegal acts, and worse still have them sold by mainsream sellers like Amazon?

Most compelling of all reasons not to spank are the following (which can be verified by people who were actually spanked themselves by doing a little research):

“...The buttocks are the locus for the induction of pain in a child. We are familiar with the argument that it is a safe ‘locus’ for spanking. However, the anal region is also the major erotic region at precisely the time the child is likely to be beaten there. Thus it is aptly chosen to achieve the result of deranged sexuality in adulthood...” 1971 (p. 113)

David Bakan, Slaughter of the Innocents,1971 (p. 113)


“Advocates of corporal punishment in schools should examine very carefully the weight of evidence now available and, particularly in light of the pornographic component, consider whether they can justify the continuation of a system with such a capacity for exciting unhealthy interest.”
British Psychological Society, “Report on Corporal Punishment in Schools” (1980)

“But what you would not so readily believe upon my affirmation, was that there are persons who are stimulated to venery by strokes of rods, and worked up into a flame of lust by blows... A strange instance what a power the force of education has in grafting inveterate ill habits on our morals...”

Johann Heinrich Meibom, physician, 1629


Unpleasant as this information is, we do our children a great disservice when we fail to acknowledge its truth.

Had we not turned a blind eye to the unpleasant phenomena of clergy abuse of children 40-50 years ago, many children would have been spared its devastating consequences. Peace.

Shoresh Yashi had a "yeshiva" where they used to beat the children. Also, one of the adults I knew was ganged up on by the "elders" and they started smacking him around. It happened many years ago.

Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.


Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational literature, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research on "spanking".

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,

Center For Effective Discipline,

PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals,

Churches' Network For Non-Violence,

Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,

Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,

Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In 26 countries, child buttock-battering is prohibited by law (with more in process).
In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.