Sorry for the typo, I meant to say "it was NOT meant as a bad thing...".

quote marvin]Sally this is not a JH "original" by any means. Even my father used to say that a certain person had an old soul. That just meant that perhaps an ancestor came to "reside" in a new person and that person was smarter or had more insight then he or she should have at the young age. I guess it had a certain Kabbalisitc perspective. It was meant as a bad thing, just that the person was "wise beyond their years".[/quote]

HI.
Ok I know that having an ''old'' soul doesn't have to be good or bad in and of itself.
My question I suppose is in regards to the seed passing.
In other words someone had mentioned JH giving all the youth a ''new soul''. I'm thinking...''new soul...reborn.....etc''
I'm also thinking Gary is titled ''First born of many brethren''. We know Gary caught JH seed. We can almost assume that catching seed is what got him the ''first born'' title.
It all just really begs the question. Could there be a ''belief'' that a young man could get a ''new soul'' by catching seed and is it possible that JH could have justified ''passing his seed' by saying the man's previous sould was ''old''. Did he ever ''pass seed'' to a boy under the age of 18 in an effort to give him a ''new soul'' and then justify the action by claiming that...although his chronological age was 18, he was ''spiritually'' older because his former soul was an ''old'' soul?
Did he ever claim that it was a mistake to ''pass seed'' to Dennis because Dennis was a young soul and not ready for a rebirth...but that some 17 year olds could be spiritually old enough to ''receive'' a new soul via 'seed passing''.
It's more of a question than an accusation.
I'm not saying it happened. I just think it's a possibility.

Sally there is so much mystery and secrecy about what happened in the house JH lived in as far as the "passing of the seed" that unless someone comes forward who witnessed it no one will really know. When I was involved to the degree I was involved, which you know was fairly deep, I always thought that term was symbolic of the passing of spiritual knowledge and understanding. I never once thought that it referred to masturbation practices. We need to be careful and not let false accusations arise fom this. There are plenty of good, valid and justifiable reasons why clear headed people leave a group without falling into misinformation. After all isn't that why none of us, well most of us, left them in the first place. We need to be above the lies and liars and place our faith in the truth. Just my two cents of course.

marvin:

On the other hand if sexual abuse and exploitation occurred, those that knew about can speak their mind.

It wasn't symbolic. Many of the older members have admitted that the seed passing literally happened.

It happened to Dennis, Lou, and others. It was more than just seed passing too. Ask around.

I agree they should speak out if they have first hand knowledge of abuse. No question about that.

I don't need to ask around. If it happened then it happened. If it happened between adults that is one thing. If minors were involved that is another situation entirely.

marvin:

Why are you here?

What is your specific purpose for posting on this thread?

I would like to hear from others who were in the same situation I was years ago and hear how they are now doing. I was very close to a lot of people and am sorry that so many were hurt by JH and his folloers. I am upset that I was not aware of what was going on even when I was an elder in the family. Things were kept from me that if I had known about I would have left and notified the authorities. If I can help anyone who I was friends with or who remembers me I want to do that. I went through a period of feeling empty and alone as almost everyone I was close with and had seen on an almost daily basis for almost 10 years was suddenly gone or would not speak with me because I left and they stayed. Now I am finding out that the cult is still active and growing and this upsets me deeply. Thats why I am here.

OK
So does the belief in re - incarnation and the belief that a soul might be born old ever justify ''passing the seed'' to a legal minor?
Past or present.
Has it happened in the past? Could it happen now?