I have one more thing to say about parents who ''allowed'' Hickman, an abuser, to have authority in their life. These adults and leaders in that church were co=abusers. This does not mean they abused EVERY child. Many had large families with many children and...one or two of those children were singled out for abuse. In the homes where Koreans were adopted..it was usually the Koren child that was abused.

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Sallie
I have one more thing to say about parents who ''allowed'' Hickman, an abuser, to have authority in their life. These adults and leaders in that church were co=abusers. This does not mean they abused EVERY child. Many had large families with many children and...one or two of those children were singled out for abuse. In the homes where Koreans were adopted..it was usually the Koren child that was abused.

I have to say I find this very hard to believe. I wonder what actual knowledge you can have of families other than your own. While some may have had these problems I don't think you can know that unless you saw it. Speaking as one of the children in question, I can say that nothing like this ever happened in my home, to me or to my siblings (one of whom is an adopted Korean).

Sorry Sallie let me clarify my previous statement. I'm not saying it didn't happen to some, but I don't think it was as widespread as you believe.

And another thing. As for raising our own children to feel special or superior so that they will avoid cults...good luck. If I am special and better than most of humanity...according to my upbringing...I will need to feed those feelings and thoughts. I will need someone other than mom and dad to affirm my superiority. That is just what Jack did. Feelings of being ''special and superior'' is what got the elders to follow Jacko in the first place. Those ''inner circle'' adults were not victims of parental abuse or neglect. Seeking positive affirmations is not what turned them on to Jackie boy. Quite the opposit.... they actually needed confirmation of what they had always been told by their parents...that they were ''better than'' their siblings, peers and the rest of humanity.
I'm talking about what I know. What I heard. What I can prove. Hove. Smethstead. Hicks. Raised in homes where mom and pop told them constantly that they were ''better than''....everyone..... Now along comes Jacko....he says the same thing....and voila....he has cult followers.....
Parents can seem like god. If god says that your uniqueness and specialness is proven by your being ''better than'' others....you will always need to hear that. Jacko...a parent/god figure to the ''better than'' folk.
I am grateful every day that the ''better than'' freaks mistreated me when I was very young. I now have the opportunity to believe that ''all men were created equal''....and I have the freedom to love the rest of humanity and to treat others with the dignity that I believe the Creator of us all would want.

Damaged,
How group members define abuse and how I define abuse are different.
Example...I believe it is abuse to shoot your sperm at a 16 year old boy after you convinced him you are Christ incarnte...group members disagree...
Koreans were not, as a rule, treated well by the Hickmanites...and....let's start with the fact that they were taken from a Christian orphanage where their caretakers were told that ''Shoresh Yashi'...was a Christian organization. Some families adored the Koreans they adopted and if member serves me...most of those families also left the group. If you want to convince me that the one adopted Korean sibling that you grew up with was treated well you could have your Korean sibling tell me that for his/her self. BTW I probably know who you are.
And I have plenty of actual knowledge. How many Koreans ran away from home....actually....do you know?????
Plenty. And you know that.

Did a Korean child ever run away from the Vandersomethings or the Hicks family or the Hove family. That Newsday article has quotes from Hicks and Hove....both of them had Korean children who ran off constently and/or permanently. Why? Because they were treated so well. Shall I go on? I can continue to name names.......

I'll continue. It might have been best to leave this can of worms shut but...I'll continue....
Do you think sex with someone who isn't an actual blood relative is OK???? Like....if that person is told you're a sibling...but your not really blood related...do you think Damage13 that...sex would be OK?????
I'll assume you're intelligent enough to know where I'm going with this....and if you want to shut me down and say it didn't go on...I'll name more than one name......
They are perverts...this is why they thought Hickman was the christ......
Nuff said....

Sallie, first of all, whether or not you know me is irrelevant to my statements. Second, I don't think you do know me since I do not know you. Third, since I do not know you, I have trouble believing you could have seen what went on in my family better than me.

I think most people reading my posts would see that I did not say I think sex with a relative, adopted or not, is okay.
You are obviously very angry and I'm sure you have good reason to be, but saying names of families you think these things happened in is not the same as having proof, i.e. having seen it for yourself as I asked earlier. I was not trying to attack you as you seem to think since you have gotten very defensive. I was only saying that it did not happen in all the families in the group, and I stand by that statement. I know from your posts that your family had a terrible experience and I would never deny that. I will also not deny that my parents did screw my head up very badly with their apocalyptic beliefs. But for me that is as far as it went. You can believe me or not.

Your assertion about the cult is consistent. You believe that HIckman was a sole pervert and that all 1,000 plus followers were victims of a lone...single pervert.
I have a different belief.
I believe that he surrounded himself with like minded perverts and called them his ''inner circle''. I have no sympathy for the ''inner circle'' and the church elders. I do not believe they were victims. You do.
You asked me to name names and give proof and so I began to. Now you are saying that you know that I don't ''know'' what happened because I didn't ''see'' anything...??????
Well...I imagine most acts of sexual perversion are not witnessed since sex (especially between family) occurs behind closed doors.
You don't want me to 'defend' my beliefs...???? Is that why the seemingly derogatory tone regarding my ''defensive'' statements??? Too bad.
This is America.
I can speculate and comment about anything I want to. Your decision not to ''believe'' what I say because no one can ''know'' what goes on behind closed doors....reaks of Hickman....
Did I ''see'' Koreans run away from home???? UM.....yeh...yeh I did. Did I ''see'' innappropriate behaviour towards Koreans which would corroborate stories I was told. UM....yeh....yeh I did.....
Do you or don't you want names and details????????????????????????????????????????

Once again to clarify...this loon attracted over 1,000 followers during his hey day....many if not most dabbled...they were transient.....
Hickman was aloof to most......
But...
He had his ''close'' followers and they are still active.
I refuse to ever allow any present day member of this group to behave or speak as though they were innocent victims of abuse without giving my opinion. I will never stop giving my opinion. My opinion is that..to have been in Hickmans ''inner circle''...and to still be involved in this group....a person had and still must have sexual boundaries that do not adhere to social or legal laws of America.
You are right about one thing......the fact that most sexually perverse acts happen behind closed doors would mean that those acts were probably not eye witnessed and would be hard to prove...
So what...
This is a board not a court of law...
But even if it was a court of law there is something about an ''utterance after an assault''....something like that. It's a type of here say that would be admissable in court....I'm remembering....um this time I'm remembering a 14 year old girl who was assaulted and told me immediately after....um ...it WOULD be addmissable...even in court.
Do you want a name and approximate date...????????????????????