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rrmoderator
Very unusual story.

I have never heard of a any on-line group pursuing someone only as a result of Internet discussion without any personal physical contact through meetings and actual direct involvement as a participating active member.

Frankly, your account is rather difficult to believe.

It is a rather unusal story, I agree. I was not dealing with normal people.

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rrmoderator
This would be a matter for the police to review.

Please understand that this message board cannot offer professional counseling or legal advice. The resources linked previously do offer such counseling services though.

I understand this as I'm sure others who post do as well.

I went from physical participation 3 years ago to website communication with members of the same organization who have branched off and formed their own group with an intended purpose to adhere strictly to what they believe is the correct doctrine.

Just to clear a few things up since you seem to assume I am seeking counseling from a website. I am here as other parties sharing my story and exchanging information as is the stated purpose of your message board.

Thank you very much for your concern. :D

Hi jewels36305,
You wrote some time ago, and are still watching this thread, so I thought I'd respond here too, since I've had some experience in this area,

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1. Why did you leave? What influenced you etc.?

Generally, because in each case I felt that I had learned everything I needed to learn where I was, and there was no longer any learning benefit left.

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2. What was the hardest step you had to take to leave?

Gathering my own personal resources up to the point where I could confidently confront the cult leader in each case, anticipating his or her various ploys to keep me in the cult, so that I could be sure that I could counter these with my own legitimate answers.

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3. What was the hardest thing to get over? Or something you are still trying to get over?

In the two cults that took some time to recover from, the hardest thing to get over was the fear that some of my needs might still somehow be able to be met by the types of things that went on in these cults.

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4. Would you have gone to a shelter if needed?

If I had known in any of the cases that there were a shelter that was staffed by former members of any of the cults that I was in the process of exiting from, and if I had found this staff to be non-threatening, yes. Otherwise, no.

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5. Did you think about or want help when you left?

Yes, however upon consideration of the help available, I opted against it. As I mentioned above, the only type of help that I might have accepted would have been from other former cultists of the same cults I was exiting.

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6. Have you or do you think about getting help now?

Once I had properly rid myself of any notion that there was anything at all of any value whatsoever left for me in any of the former cults that I participated in, I no longer felt I needed any help and became much more effective in my career and other aspects of my life.

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7. What has helped you overcome the most since you have left?

My inner work, working to explore exactly what inner psychological perceived needs caused me to join such organizations in the first place, has enabled me to recover the most.

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8. If you have ever left and gone back why did you go back?

Of the three cults that I have participated in, I returned to one of them once in a peripheral manner, only to leave after I believe I completed the learning that I needed to learn. This was the cult that I was born into. I believe that this one cult may have required extra work because it was so much a part of me on even subconscious levels that it required more work to free myself from it. The other two cults I never returned to.

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9. If you joined a cult why did you join? What appealed to you most?

The first cult I joined by birth, so I cannot say. The second cult I joined in order to escape the first cult. The third cult, at the time that I joined it, I told myself that I joined it because that was God’s will for me. Later I realized that I also joined it because it also suited some of what I may have somehow felt were some of my psychological needs in my life at the time that I joined it.

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It seems to me that your idea about getting newly exiting cultists together with older former cultists of the same or very similar cults is excellent. I also agree with some of the other posters here that there is too much variation between most cults for an exiting cultist to benefit very much from the help of former members from widely dissimilar cults, especially to the point where a "shelter" type of arrangement would normally do much good for such exiting cultists.

I would bet that anyone who has done any real exit counseling would support the idea that in order for a specific exit counseling to be very helpful, the counselor would have to minimally have done significant research into the exact types of cult dynamics employed by the cult in question, and optimally would have specifically done in depth research into the specific cult in question.

I believe that your idea of trying to start such a shelter, that would try to focus specifically on exiting cultists from identical, or near identical circumstances is excellent, and most likely to be found to be helpful.

Good luck,

Scott P.

Why did you leave? What influenced you etc.?

I refuse to live a lie, I won't be a hypocrite, I knew I couldn't live the life of a JW, so I left.

What was the hardest step you had to take to leave?

Facing my family members who are JW's also.

What was the hardest thing to get over? Or something you are still trying to get over?

Coming to terms with the fact that God isn't going to strike me down and kill my children for walking away...

Would you have gone to a shelter if needed?

YES!

Did you think about or want help when you left?

YES!

If yes, why didn't you get help?

Quite simply, there wasn't any around as such. I found some help by researching things on the internet and the rest I fought tooth and nail to fix myself.

Have you or do you think about getting help now?

No, I've self helped really. I spent time in chatrooms with other ex JW's, I printed off tons of info about them and their covers up's, and I forced myself to get stronger. It took years...

Would you have gone to a shelter for help if there was one for people leaving cults?

Yes I would, because at the time it left me unable to be a decent Wife and Mother such was the level of my distress.

Would it make it easier to go if it were ran by an ex-cult member?

Yes.

What has helped you overcome the most since you have left?

Having the internet, sourcing info on the JW's and proving to myself that it was all wrong, as in the long run only you can do that. When you're brainwashed it doesn't matter what other people tell you, it hits a blank wall and bounces right off.

If you have ever left and gone back why did you go back?

No, no going back xx

If you joined a cult why did you join? What appealed to you most?[/quote]

I was raised a JW from the age of 3 and had no say in it really.

Best wishes,

Jo xx

I'm not even 100% sure what I left could be considered a cult, exactly. Some things match up, some don't, it was a Bible study group and it truly messed with my spiritual life. I never lived with these people, just with my husband.

Why did you leave? What influenced you etc.?
We were a very rigid group. When I went through struggles, it was turned on me. I was supposed to be able to overcome if I was spiritual enough. I received a lot of criticism and had nowhere to turn, because we were led to believe there were spiritual problems in every Christian ministry, book, teacher, etc. I was so oppressed I finally couldn't handle anymore.

What was the hardest step you had to take to leave?
Getting my husband to allow us to leave. Submitting to one's husband was a big thing with these people, he was constantly getting spoken to about needing to be the "leader", etc. I came to him in tears, telling him I felt I was going to spiritually die if I didn't get away from these people, but he didn't want to, because he wanted to be the one to make the decision, not by my influence. He didn't want to get flack from them about it. So I gave in and we stayed until he was ready to leave. I am very glad it didn't take longer than it did, just a few months.

What was the hardest thing to get over? Or something you are still trying to get over?
I can't trust myself anymore, or my judgement. I don't feel I can trust God. I am unhappy with my husband for the times when he led me somewhere I didn't feel right going. I am still so unhappy and unsettled and confused, and it's been maybe a year and a half or so.

Would you have gone to a shelter if needed?
No, because I am a wife and mother, and I couldn't leave my husband and child to do so. I also didn't/don't trust people anymore.

Did you think about or want help when you left?
I wanted it, but didn't know where to go. Again, I also have major trust issues.

If yes, why didn't you get help?
Trust issues, money, no support from husband to do so.

Have you or do you think about getting help now?
Still looking for it, but I'm really stuck in a lot of ways.

Would you have gone to a shelter for help if there was one for people leaving cults?
No.

Would it make it easier to go if it were ran by an ex-cult member?
Yes.

What has helped you overcome the most since you have left?
I haven't overcome, but am very glad to put the distance between myself and the others.

If you have ever left and gone back why did you go back?
Haven't gone back.

If you joined a cult why did you join? What appealed to you most?
I was disappointed with what I percieved to be a lack of zeal in the church I attended. The Bible study leader seemed so zealous for God, and I really wanted to give my life to God and serve Him. I thought it was the right way to do it.

Why did you leave? What influenced you etc.?
The leader was abusive yelling all the time and scitzophrenic and wouldn't take his meds. He actually hit someone in his anger when she wanted to leave the 'order'. This group by the way is in the Sierra Nevada's. I still live in the general area, so I will omit his name. He has now written books on gnosis and thinks he is enlightened. I'm shocked he is not flagged.

What was the hardest step you had to take to leave?
Giving up my loyalty to him. I loved him at one time.

What was the hardest thing to get over? Or something you are still trying to get over?
Reacting to all spiritual teachers as though they are a cult figure. I am hypervigilant near spiritual teachers and very sensistive to 'one of us' mentality. Therefore, I never want to get very close to a teacher now. I do all my practices on my own.

Would you have gone to a shelter if needed?
No, becasue I needed seclusion. I would have gone to an ashram in india if I knew I'd be left alone to lick my wounds.

Did you think about or want help when you left?
YES!!! But no one understood the damage.

If yes, why didn't you get help?
I did. I went to therapy and could only discuss things the therapist had knowledge of. Not much help.

Have you or do you think about getting help now?
No. I'm pretty free spirited and it's been a very long time.

Would you have gone to a shelter for help if there was one for people leaving cults?
NO
Would it make it easier to go if it were ran by an ex-cult member?
NO - Seclusion is what I needed. I needed to be away from the teacher.

What has helped you overcome the most since you have left?
Time.

If you have ever left and gone back why did you go back?
Good question. Most of my extreme yoga practice that lead to kundalini happened while I was on a sabatical after being 'banished' from the cult at age 21. By age 23 I had kundalini all on my own, this is why I needed seclusion. By age 23, I went back to "Prove to him he was wrong!" and I did so against better judgement. I left after I had enough and learned that 'he didn't grow at all in that year'. I assumed he was earnest in his path like I was and that he would evolve like I did. He actually regressed into the black arts I found out - part of his schitzophrenic stuff.

If you joined a cult why did you join? What appealed to you most?
I was having a genuine spiritual calling. It was intense and I met him very quickly after the spiritual calling happened. I didn't know how to find or discern a good teacher at the time.

Scott wrote:

"Gathering my own personal resources up to the point where I could confidently confront the cult leader in each case, anticipating his or her various ploys to keep me in the cult, so that I could be sure that I could counter these with my own legitimate answers. "

If you can do that, its great.

Problem is some of us zone out and dissociate when having face to face
confrontations with cult leaders. If some sort of trance was covertly used, or if one has lingering effects from trauma induced earlier in life that the cult leader later piggy backed onto and exploited, it may take years to reach a point where one can accomplish what Scott describes. And during those years, that cult leader may find other ways to throw you off balance and the longer one spends in a group, the harder it is to leave and the harder it is to make up for that lost time in the outside world if one has sacrificed job opportunities or earning power.

I can offer one thing that makes it hard to leave:

The feeling you owe your leader an explanation -- and especially that
you feel you not only owe your leader or group an explanation but an explanation that will satisfy them.

Part of how a cult or a really rotten relationship works is that they constantly make you feel like you owe them something, while you forget all you're doing to prop them up by way of unpaid or low paid labor or by giving the leader narcissistic supplies, enduring his or her tantrums, shielding the leader or partner from consequences, lying for them, keeping secrets for them, etc etc.

There are some people for whom it is IMPOSSIBLE to give a satisfactory reason for your wanting to end the relationship.

(Only they have the right to end the relationship and cult leaders often wait until you are depleted and boring and no longer useful to them. That means they dont dump you until you are at the worst possible time in your life, health or psych state. You're booted in such a way (and often they dont give you a warning or explanation) and you're shattered, disoriented, possibly unemployable or left having a horrid time staying employable because you can barely concentrate at work.

You may be left in need of psych aftercare and possibly unable to afford it.

So it is way better to get out while you are ambulatory and in good fiscal and physical health!)

The above correspondant mentioned having to reach a point where he or she was able to refute each and every one of the ploys put out.

Problem is there are some people or groups for which there is NEVER a satisfactory reason to leave. Never.

I had to end a friendship with a dangerously possessive and narcissistic man. Reasoning with him was futile. Anything that did not match his belief system didnt compute. It was like arguing with a box of rocks. He lacked empathy in any adult sense, so he never got exhausted in an argument.

He'd just stare and say, I dont understand, while I'd try to get a reason out that he did understand. Eventually I'd get exhausted and give in.

Only when I realized the pattern did I understand it was time to get out.

Others will try to tell you that you are crazy if you reason with them. The more evidence you present the more vicious the person gets.

If you are female, the creep will try to convince you that you are crazy or a b*** or that you lack compassion.

If you are a man, the creep will try to convince you that you are a wimp, a wuss or a weenie.

(Women fear being labelled crazy, men fear being shamed for being weak)

And sometimes, the person will cry, 'But come back. Let me make amends!'

My reply is, 'If you want to make amends, treat your next partner (or next
disciple) better than you treated me.'

Walk out and dont return.

And beware of having too many friends who remain members or are former members of the group. They may get involved with another guru and to stay friends with them, you may go along and end up in yet another trap.

Its amazingly hard to accept that YOU DONT OWE ANYONE AN EXPLANATION.

Especially if they've treated you like shit.

(Only ones you do owe anything to are your dependents, your credit card/s, the IRS, and other outstanding bills.)

If you are really tormented by this nagging feeling you owe everyone an explanation, a very good thing to do in recovery is explore where that feeling came from and how you were pre-formatted to buy into it.

That is where family of origin work is valuable.

If haunted by lingering feelings of loyalty to the group or leader or your former partner, get help for that. And never forget that it is healthy to feel angry and it actually assists you to re-build your boundaries and regain access to your personal vitality.

Anger is one way we get a grip on our life force--and if we are not hindered by shame about anger (and of course dont act on it by being nasty to people)...healthy anger is naturally time limited and will ebb away, after your experiences are fully validated and especially if you avoid New Age or Dharma Lite types who try to shame or run guilt trips on you that your anger means you are doing something wrong.

Again, if you dont cling to it, act it out physically or suppress it through shame, anger is naturally time limited. You will feel angry as long as you need to and when you are, on your own schedule ready to move on, you'll find yourself calming down naturally, with no need to force yourself to do it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2008 11:36PM by corboy.

Why did you leave? What influenced you etc.?

I just gradually became tired of my group...the audulation of the leader, the pressure to constantly be involved in group activities, the manipulation, being told that my life would go badly if I wasn't 200% devoted to the organization -- and never being able to discuss any of this with other members, and my leaders. When I tried, I was just told that I had a bad attitude and weak faith.

What was the hardest step you had to take to leave?

Practically speaking, I didn't have to do much...my group didn't live together, and I had my own job, unconnected with the group. I just quit going to meetings. My former members sent me the occasional e-mail or left a message on my answering machine about some activity, but nobody ever tried to persuade me to come back. Strangely enough, it hurts that they did not care enough about me to try to get me back -- even though I would never have come back, no matter what they did. I don't believe that disasters happen to those who leave the group -- but THEY do -- so you would think that they would, if they really cared about me, try to get me to return to it! I think that they found my questioning annoying. It made them uncomfortable, and it was easier to just let me leave.

What was the hardest thing to get over? Or something you are still trying to get over?

As I said in response to the previous question, realizing that these people whom I considered my family really cared nothing about me. Also, I've had some fears that I will face some personal catastrophe for quitting, even though I know that this is irrational (and hasn't happened in two years.) I also feel like a real dumbbell for staying for so many years, when there were so many red flags. A lot of my time and social life was tied up with this organization and my fellow members, and it's been hard to find other activities and new friends, especially as I am much less trusting. I felt that I was going to save the world in this organization...that feeling can be very seductive, very addictive. Normal life can seem dull by comparison.

Would you have gone to a shelter if needed?

I didn't feel the need for this, as I didn't live with them. If I had lived with them? I'd probably have gone to my sister's, or my cousin's.

Did you think about or want help when you left?

Yes.

If yes, why didn't you get help?

I didn't think that a counselor would understand my experiences. Also, I felt stupid about my involvement with this group.

Have you or do you think about getting help now?

This message board helps a lot. I don't feel the need for anything more.

Would you have gone to a shelter for help if there was one for people leaving cults?

Maybe, if I didn't have a place to live. I would have preferred some kind of discussion group for ex cult members.

Would it make it easier to go if it were ran by an ex-cult member? Yes, definitely.

What has helped you overcome the most since you have left?

This website, and another that relates directly to my cult. Journaling also helps. A book by Stephen Cope, "Yoga and the Search for the True Self," also helped a lot. Cope writes about his experiences with Yogi Amrit Desai at the Kripalu Center in Massachusetts -- a very different group than mine, but Cope has a lot of insight into groups who follow charismatic leaders. I found that I could relate to a lot of what he said.

If you have ever left and gone back why did you go back?

I did go to one meeting about a year ago. I think I missed the sense of purpose that I'd felt when I first joined. I quickly realized that everything that I disliked about the organization was still going on. There was nothing there for me, and I left early without speaking to anyone.

If you joined a cult why did you join? What appealed to you most?

I'd always been interested in Buddhism, and these people seemed like positive, intelligent people who wanted to practice Buddhism, improve their lives, and help others.