Dear Forum readers,

I joined this forum to see if people would join in a discussion to help me understand this group Greater Grace World Outreach (GGWO). I have been involved with them and have seen much good in them, but have read of some of their history recently and it has some very harmful practices. It seems education is a key to know the next steps.

I saw a posting on this site from someone who is taking them to court and so it seems that either some of the old controversies are still being dealt with or new ones are occurring.

The question now is since the new leadership has it changed? I find it difficult to know is it because of the pressure of the internet forcing accountability on them and so they are more careful or is there real change? There are still errors but that can be just lack of experience and such. I am thankful for views of people who know about this organization and also from outsiders as they can be very objective not being emotionally involved not having made any investment of their time or life there.

regards
Chad

See [www.culteducation.com]

This gives message board participants a better understanding of the group in question, which has a deeply troubled history.

The group has been called a "cult" and lost a court case that revolved around charges of "brainwashing."

The judgement against the church was upheld all the way the US Supreme Court.

The key to meaningful change for this group would be accountability or its leaders, such as through a democratically elected church government and an annually published budget that details all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds.

An elected board could be required through the bylaws of the church corporate filings and constitution. This would typically require all members to vote by secret ballot to elect board members to fixed terms, who would stand for election again when their term expired. The church board would be able to discipline and if necessary fire the pastor or any staff and decide upon the budget.

An annually published budget should be distributed to all contributing members and could be independently audited.

Without this type of objective change whatever the group claims it has done to change may be merely cosmetic and not really that significant.

I was a member of this "church" in the 80's and have had family members and friends that stayed up until the past year or so. This organization remains toxic in my opinion.

I was a member of GGWO for many years and even after exiting the group 12 years ago I am still having to deal with the damaging effects of being involved with the group. I regret the fact that I never confronted the group about the things that were going on behind closed doors.

Hi, everyone. My experiences with "Greater Grace World Outreach" was actually with it's parent org "The Bible Speaks". When I was in college in the late 70's I was very interested in religion (christianity primarily although I "listened" to members of the Unification Church (moonies) and our dear"friends" the $cientologists).

The pastor of The Bible Speaks caught me at one of his "lessons" (i.e. "church" services) and tried to put his hooks into me. When he found out I was possibly interested in becoming a minister for the UCC he haunted me. He would be waiting for me at my dorm, would stop by my dorm room to pray (I had a single as a freshman) or invite me to bible studies.

I remember after attending a number of "church" services I saw a pattern. Yelling...accusing...guilt...

I asked him before the last "church service" why he felt the need to yell all the time. Didn't Jesus love? Yes, Jesus drove out the money changers from the temple, but he was JESUS. The pastor told me "God" was speaking directly to him.

That "church service" was aimed at me directly. "Nambey Pambey christians" (he actually said this) who think why do we have to yell? (all done in a very condencending way)

He continued to berate me through the entire "service" as being the "problem with the Church today" and "People not worthy of Heaven".

I was NOT so deeply as you folk sadly were and I got up and left in the middle (maybe near the end, who knows and I never cared) of the "service" and never looked back. I did all I could to get the word out among the people who I knew were practicing christians and jews to avoid "The Bible Speaks".

I (God help me) am glad the founder died.

I hope you poor souls can find comfort here at Rick Ross' sites. You are not alone and there are probably many others who are "lurking" (reading) and not responding. I am so sorry I didn't get active like Rick Ross and helped to bring this hurtful and hateful organization down years ago. That is perhaps my only regret.