Hi everyone

I am feeling very alone today and struggling with a fear that is gripping me, as it so often does; the fear that "I am doing something wrong because I am not praying, meditating or serving people"
I feel so guilty and frozen with fear. It is really hard to choose what to do, because I really feel I must do something that is a spiritual task, and I keep thinking that by doing regular things, everyday things or enjoyable things that I will be doing something wrong. I keep thinking I am wasting my time and my life because I am not living a spiritual life anymore. It seems like such a bad thing to do, to waste my life like this. I end up sitting and doing nothing much because I cant bring myself to do ordinary things (that arent spiritual) and I cant bring myself to do spiritual things (that feels too much like dissociating). I was in a group with an Indian leader who controlled the majority of our time with spiritual requirements. I dont even know now if it was in fact meditation we were doing, I dont thing it was because we were really just indoctrinating ourselves with his rules.

I have heard from exmembers of my group, but they still believe it is essential to have a spiritual path (now they follow Buddhism) and I feel extra bad because they think I am wrong not to have a new path. They say that being spiritual and following a path is essential. And they are exmembers, not current members so I feel extra crazy. Am I the only one who suspects that just regular life is spiritual anyway? I feel so alone and keep doubting myself.
I am really tired of having this divide in my mind between spiritual people and non spiritual people. I long to feel that we are just all the same and that we dont have to do so called spiritual things. But I am just so afraid.
I have written about this before, but I could really use some more support, if anyone out there can relate...
Thanks
pegasus

Hi, I think "normal" life is very "spiritual".
Think of the "chop wood carry water", etc.

If you want my 2 cents, if the emotions are really upsetting, and are not getting better, maybe consider seeing a good REGISTERED counsellor of some type?
Everyone is on a path, for some its philosophy, some art, music, etc.

A person can even be an non-theist, or an athiest, and have close friends who are into various religions.
A few more 2 cents, is to maybe join some local hobby groups, and things of that nature, with real people in the area. Maybe woodworking, etc. whatever is interesting. Classes at a night school, etc.

but if the emotions are really troubling, why not go and try to get some cognitive therapy, or interpersonal therapy, from a REGISTERED legit person, and shop around too.
Coming out of culty group can be challenging at best...

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pegasus
Hi everyone

I am feeling very alone today and struggling with a fear that is gripping me, as it so often does; the fear that "I am doing something wrong because I am not praying, meditating or serving people"
I feel so guilty and frozen with fear. pegasus

Alot of cults will manipulate people using guilt, sense of obligation, fear tactics, "serving humanity" rhetoric etc.

Check out this video it can help you:
[www.youtube.com]


Its good to talk to others (ex cultists) with similar experiences. They dont need to come from the same organization. You'll be suprise how similar alot of our experiences are.
Also you can check out the posts on New Age groups or similar groups here.

btw You know The Solar Temple cult, Jim Jone's People's Temple etc. advocated helping humanity or serving people. But they also commited mass suicide.

Above all if you really feel you need it. See a therapist or ask for a recommendation from Rick Ross & Co.

Dont let pride from preventing you from seeking help if you need it. You are not alone here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2009 06:36AM by Keir.

Hi Anticult and Keir
Thank you for your replies. It helped me not to feel so alone. I have not had great luck with therapists (the ones I tried did not understand cult issues and minimised mine) and I live in a country far from America where I have not been able to find a cult specialist therapist or excult member gp. However I am thinking of putting up some flyers or ads to see if there are any exculties around. It would be good to talk to others in person. I do feel on my own with this. I have returned to my home country after being overseas when in the cult.

Anticult I really needed to hear someone say there are many different paths, and you are right, there are paths of art, music, etc etc I had been temporarily hugely confused by the forum I was on with exmembers of my group saying it is essential to have a new spiritual path and indictaing Buddhism was the one. That really freaked me out because I felt I had to now follow Buddhism to be spiritually ok and I thought it meant that I was unacceptable in Gods eyes if I didnt get a new path.

I have put a lot of work into disputing my beliefs, using CBT and also trying to re develop my own critical thinking and I think I am getting somewhere. I now have notes to refer to when I am thinking in the cult mindset which help. Most recently when I notice a cult thought, I have been saying to myself, : 'Maybe God would see it differently' which helps to make a space for an alternative thought. (I used to think the cult beliefs were from God, so this helps me to separate the beliefs and God)

If anyone is about out there, I would love to hear more from you
Thanks
pegasus

What is CBT?
I also tried therapy years ago. In many ways it was a help but I know what you mean, as far as cult brainwashing my therapist did not understand.
I took a lot of psychology courses in college and read some psychology books which I thought were a huge help. For a while I even read about serial killers and for some reason it helped me at the time. Looking back I think it is because the cult leaders are psychopaths and so are serial killers.
I figured that, in a sense, some evil cult guru probed my mind. I felt that a good antidote was to read up on sociopaths because then, in a way...I was probing the mind of the cult leader personality..
What a good idea to say ''Maybe God would see it differently''.

well, just that one comment that ex-members are saying a person must be a Buddhist, is clearly incorrect and false. Says who? That sounds like people who have jumped from one cult, and maybe right into another one! That seems to happen all the time, Guru-Jumping.

There are many other religions out there, and there are many who are agnostics and are doing just fine. Its probably healthiest to take a break from all things of that nature for a few years, one would think?

CBT can be really helpful. Its tough to find a good CBT therapist, as many say they do CBT, but they really just do generic talk therapy.

as far as religion, sometimes a good thing to do is to get a large textbook of comparative world religions, and read that! Then one can see there are hundreds of religions out there.
And maybe read up on atheism and philosophy too...why not...

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pegasus
Anticult I really needed to hear someone say there are many different paths, and you are right, there are paths of art, music, etc etc I had been temporarily hugely confused by the forum I was on with exmembers of my group saying it is essential to have a new spiritual path and indictaing Buddhism was the one. That really freaked me out because I felt I had to now follow Buddhism to be spiritually ok and I thought it meant that I was unacceptable in Gods eyes if I didnt get a new path.

I have put a lot of work into disputing my beliefs, using CBT and also trying to re develop my own critical thinking and I think I am getting somewhere.

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pegasus
I have heard from exmembers of my group, but they still believe it is essential to have a spiritual path (now they follow Buddhism) and I feel extra bad because they think I am wrong not to have a new path. They say that being spiritual and following a path is essential.

pegasus

Pegasus, people have said all kinds of things about spirituality, both now and in the past. Examples:
--Roman Catholicism is the one true faith.
--The Mormon Church is the one true faith.
--Islam is the one true faith.
--You cannot attain enlightenment unless you accept Daisaku Ikeda as your personal mentor.
--Witches exist and God wants us to kill them.
--A tribe must sacrifice a virgin in order to have a good harvest.
--Zeus lives on top of Mount Olympus and throws lightning bolts at Earth.
--If an unmarried woman is not a virgin, she should be stoned to death.
--If a woman is raped, she should be stoned to death.
--God wants us to kill nonbelievers.
--It's okay to take other people as slaves because there are slaves in the Bible.
--God, or the Gods, want us to kill animals as sacrifices to Him/Them.
--God, or the Gods, want people to fly airplanes into ships and buildings, and to be suicide bombers.
--A woman who offends a god or goddess can be turned into a pillar of salt. (Old Testament.) Or a spider (Greek mythology.)
--It's okay to form social groups (castes), and segregate and exclude people on that basis.
--Gods can have sex with humans.
--God may send you to hell for eating fish on Friday.
--God loves people with light skin better. However, if you are a virtuous dark-skinned person, God will reward you by lightening your skin.
--God is the wisest, and most loving Father ever, and yet he can easily torture you in Hell for all eternity, simply because you chose, and practiced the wrong religion.

And I'm sure that other readers can think of many more examples. CAN all of these things be true? No way! ALL religions say that they are the one true faith....and yet they CAN'T possibly all be the one true faith. If one is, the others are not. Many of these statements also defy all logic, common sense, and just common decency and compassion. My point? People say a lot of ridiculous things about spirituality -- and deeply believe the meanest and most illogical things. Anything that someone says about spirituality -- you really need to question it, pick it apart, see if it passes the logic and common sense test. It's not only okay to question and reject what others say -- it's necessary.

One thing I learn about life is that one should find their own path.
Everyone has their own unique experiences with life. Every is influence by their up bringing from how your parents raised you, the neighbourhood you grew up in, social status, friends and mentors you have met in life etc.
With that in mind you are unique. So you need to find your own path. Not someone elses.

Hi everyone
Thank you for your replies and that you tube video Keir - it was good. Hey Tsukimoto, thats quite some list! It did make me think.
The thing is I cant just make myself believe that its ok to find my own path and I dont have to do anything for God. I always want to know 'the truth' and who can I believe now, after being duped for so many years and ending up in a worse state than when I started? The last few days the doubts have crept back in again - 'everything in the normal world is useless, I shouldnt be doing everyday things, I should be finding God/enlightenment, I am wasting time ' etc etc. I feel a divide in me and these thoughts cause so much anxiety and fear in me. So I guess I have to go back over them again and again think about them rationally.

Sallie, CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) is a well reputed form of therapy that you can learn yourself and as I understand it, has the premise that how you feel comes from what you are thinking. You use simple forms to record your irrational or problematic thoughts and to question them eg 'What proof is there that this thought is true?"
It encourages the develpment of critical thinking and the idea is that once you see there is no proof for your thought you can realise it isnt true. Thats a taster of CBT anyway.

Yesterday I finally got some of the cult literature out of the library - Singer, Tobias etc. I remember looking at Captive Hearts, captive minds about 5 years ago and could hardly bear to read it. I was still under the influence of my cult and I thought it was all very suspicious - the book that is - I could not handle reading it at all. So now at least I have come some way because I am ready to read it.

Whilst I do appreciate advice, the thing that probably helps the most, is hearing of others experiences that are similar to mine and the crazy things they believed and fears they had. When I hear similar stories to mine, it helps me not to feel so alone and gives perspective. It is hard to see for oneself where your blind spots are, but easier to see in others stories, and thus see the paralells in your own.

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pegasus
Hi everyone
Thank you for your replies and that you tube video Keir - it was good.

Your welcome Pegasus. I know the video has helped me and others. I'm glad it has helped you as well.

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pegasus
The thing is I cant just make myself believe that its ok to find my own path and I dont have to do anything for God.

You can still serve God. You dont need a religious organization to do that.
You might want to try studying comparitive religions. (I personally believe all religions exists because its part of a major plan by God. God wills it.)

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pegasus
I always want to know 'the truth' and who can I believe now, ....

But why do you need to follow? Why are you so disperate to in seeking gurus? What is the propensity for this? Are you very insecure about yourself? (ask yourself these questions.)

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pegasus
..... after being duped for so many years and ending up in a worse state than when I started?

(btw what you have just said is almost like a qoute from that youtube video I showed you. Your subconcious mind stills has abit of the cult programing running. It will take some time to get it out of your subconcious mind.)

btw Treat the cult experience as an innoculation. (You know when you get a flu shot you get alittle sick but then your body becomes more resistant to the virus.)
Your noting starting from a worst state. Your mind is getting tougher.

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pegasus
The last few days the doubts have crept back in again - 'everything in the normal world is useless, I shouldnt be doing everyday things, I should be finding God/enlightenment, I am wasting time ' etc etc.

Actually its quite normal. Your going through the stages of withdraw. All cults created this "Elitism" high. It happens to everyone who leaves a group. (It happen to me too. So I know what you are going through! And it also has happen to everyone here who has left a cult) Its like getting high off drugs and then comming back down normal again. You might be feeling anxiety for awhile & some deprression like feelings so be prepare for that as well.

You are not wasting time.Its just part of the innoculation process. You dont need any organized group to find God. Nothing is stopping you from going to a library and start studying books on comparitive religions. Its all part of the journey. There are many people I know who are religious but dont believe in organized religion.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 07:32AM by Keir.