Hi Sallie
Thanks for sharing your experience. And thanks also Tsukimoto for your last post. I relate to what you went thru in relationship to that woman, Sallie. Boundaries have been a focus of a lot of learning for me in recent years too, and unfortunately a lot of that learning is experiential rather than just reading and theory! The good thing about these experiences with others is that you really do learn from it, but the negative side is that it really hurts!
I am also automatically over polite often and also I find my feelings take a while to catch up with me; in other words, I act automatically, being nice to someone and its not until a while later that my resentment or anger or hurt surfaces and I realise I actually wasn't ok about letting that thing slide. Its so automatic with me to be a nice person but the danger is that I can end up avoiding being with people as much as I would like to because that is a safer way for me to have a boundary, when it would be healthier to see people more and also feel I can be my own person and set limits as need be.
I also find I am oversensitive to making mistakes and I criticise myself after most encounters with people, thinking I shouldn't have said this or that. I am having to learn that conflict of sorts and differences between people is normal and ok; in my group we were all the same or at least we tried to be/made ourselves the same. I saw conflict as a mistake on my part and took too much of my share of the blame for things. Maybe there doesnt even need to be blame, if differences of opinion etc are normal. I thought that if I wasnt being 'divine' which meant having a smile and peaceful approach, if I was angry or had a different opinion that I was wrong and undivine.
There is a lot of things to unlearn and a lot to learn. I know that boundary issues are common for many people though, not just cult survivors.
Best wishes
Pegasus

One paragraph of yours summed something up for me that was a bit vague before. This is so true! :

~'Eventually, I realized that my anxiety was a sign that SGI is teaching some bad things -- a person should not have to be afraid to listen to a different opinion! This website has also helped -- I really got to see just how these different groups are all using the same tactics -- whether a cult is based on Christianity, Paganism, Buddhism, Yoga, or something else -- so many of them say "We're the only way to salvation or enlightenment, and if you don't stay with us, something terrible will happen to you!" Well, they ALL can't be right! I began reading about these other cults, and thinking, "Man, different lyrics, same melody!" '~

I love the way you express that, it's exactly right. I can empathise with every word.

The thing that struck me was reading the line "...one true form of Buddhism." I was in a group that practiced the one true form of Marxism-Leninism. We feared the police, we feared "them", we accepted re-education when we were errant because we were soldiers of the international fighting for the dictatorship of the proletariat. As I continue reading discussions, I see a lot of common statements. I wasn't in your group but there is a strange sense of familiarity. Yes, that rings true with "different lyrics, same melody."

My fears were not unfounded. I do not know if I am an example of a minority sector of persons ejected from a group. I was beaten and thrown out, classified as a dissident, subsequently harassed by the group. Recently, I have actively engaged in discussion forums about the group. So many others reported that once they left, that was it. Still, they had the fears that someone would come for them. Several have even gone to great lengths to change their identities.

Perhaps my treatment was atypical because my father was the group founder. After his death, another seized control and couldn't afford to have an heir running around advocating the restructuring of the organization. Even to this day I wonder if they will come after me, and I have been out for twelve years. They can't afford to have me advocating the disbanding of the group.

How do I cope? I have learned that if a cop is pulling me over, it's probably a tail light that stopped working. I had to learn a different way of thinking, that not everyone was out to get me. Rather than running and hiding, I have chosen to remain publicly visible. Recently, I have started talking about my experiences. I want people to understand what I went through, what others went through. The bad dreams finally stopped. It hurts that people call my father a monster, a drug addict, sexually perverse, etc. I accept that he abused drugs and enjoyed the constant entourage of women that tended to his needs.

The more I talk, the less real the fears seem. Still I remain vigilant. Maybe that will go away soon too as I keep talking about what happened. Some have suggested I need counseling. I have found more benefit to focus my efforts to educate people. I am not an "expert" and never went to college but I speak from the heart. This is just my experience. I suspect many have experiences that are similar, predictable, after leaving an organization. I suspect others thrown out of an organization also have some commonalities in their experiences.

If you leave with anything of value from this comment, I hope it is this: please continue checking out this site. Check out Janja Lalich's site and also Steve Hassan's site. There may be others of value, I don't know. Don't end up like me, 12 years out and still with unresolved issues.

Mary Struggler

I am still anxious over a decade later. About 2 years ago I started learning about psychology, that it wasnt evil. I am able to eat more foods than before. I was in a cult that had a health clinic. And that's just hard to talk about. I wish I could find people who could understand and help. It's hard for me to even write this here because I have not talked about it for so long, except with my fiance.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Note the directory to helping professional resources.

If one can afford professional help, that's great. This is not to dissuade anyone from seeking them out but sometimes the realist in me comes out. Not everyone that leaves a cult has resources (or after one is thrown out). My sister spent almost a month living in a homeless shelter with her daughter, signed up for welfare and food stamps, relied on the charity of strangers to get her back on her feet again. She was thousand of miles from family, had no contact with family (except me and Gino in the organization) for nearly ten years.

To be blunt, after my experience, I wasn't about to trust some "shrink" that I was convinced was just out to scramble my brains like eggs. That's the mindset that had been ingrained into me by Gino. Sure, twelve years later I still have issues but I accept the fact that I have issues. In a lot of ways, my sister is doing better than me. I'm the hot head, she's the voice of reason, when it comes to talking about our experiences. I will do what I can to steer people to the good sites and hope they find what they need. I will talk about what I went through and how I coped, if it helps someone great. I am not in any way, shape or form a therapist. This is why I link my blog to what I perceive to be good, helpful sites such as this forum, Hassan and Lalich.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual, which is probably the scariest thing after leaving a communal society. Who can you trust? "They" and "them" out there were out to get me for a long time, plus the organization was "after me". We all have things in common but we also have unique experiences with our past participation. If you say nothing, it could eat you from the inside. Like I said, if you can afford the help that's great.

Mary Struggler

i just left the hare krisna cult and feel the same way. plus they said that the only way for me to get my daughter out of "pergatory" is to become a pure devotee. so am I sacraficing my daughters soul to protect myself from the sexual bodily and emotional abuse i had to endure?

After reading your posts I don't feel so badly. I guess this is a normal feeling after leaving such a controlling group. I now am stuck wondering is my life now a waste of energy because I am taking part in the mundane everyday life of "karmis?" I do feel a grasping need to find another Guru or Temple yet I know deep inside that is not the answer. Besides the fact that I was brought out to this state from across the country to become a full time devotee and now I am stuck out in the cold. I gave all my money and material belongings becasue they told me it was the way to advance spiritually. In the end I was kicked out in the middle of a snow storm after comming forward about being sexually harrased. I don't know anyone because they wouldn't let us associate with the outside world. I am also afraid because this group has a violent history. Serioulsy, I was assulted and there is now an arrest warrent out for this punk monk. I think he is hiding in the Temple to avoid proscution. In the name of Krsna they can do what ever they please.

Hi there noname,
I was shocked to hear about your experience of being kicked out for coming forward about sexual harrassment. It is just amazing how cold and heartless the cults can be. In my cult, which was lead by an Indian guru, it was also commonplace to kick people out in such a way at any time. Even people who had given up everything, worked for him for many years and had no where else to go. Really, how can the leaders be so inhuman to do that? No compassion or human caring about where the person will go. It is great that you have found this site so early and I hope you can also maybe find a local support group if you feel like it.
I dont know a lot about the hare krisna cult except there is a big community of them not too far from me in New Zealand where I live.
What you are saying about your daughters soul going to pergatory and yourself wasting your life if you live in the mundane life just so much reminds me of my own experience. Our group just used different words. By leaving I was doomed to be taken over by 'hostile' forces and when I died I believed I would go thru unbelievable suffering in the 'vital' worlds because I was no longer in my group. I believed that my teacher had a special place in the other worlds where only his disciples would go to and pretty much anyone else would suffer and not be protected by him.

I also believed that to be in the 'world' outside my group meant I was wasting my life and that everything is pointless except serving my teacher. This is really based on total fear. A huge fear of going against the teachings and thinking that to do so is going in the totally wrong direction spiritually which means some kind of harm will come to us.

I have spent so long thinking everything is pointless and that worldly people are just not spiritual, that i am spiritual but not them and it has been a very isolating and sad time for me. Such is the brainwashing process - a very strong one.
It has been a slow process for me to return to my own knowing and out of the group think. It is impressive and encouraging I think that you know inside that it is not right for you to find another guru. If you can hold onto your own sense of what is right for you rather than the mind control of the group that will no doubt be a huge help.
Usually being in the group think is detectable because the thoughts are so fearful and provoke anxiety I find.
Pegasus

this thread has been really interesting to read...thanks to all of you. So many things written here really struck a chord with me. For example thinking that normal is bad...that I must be some spiritually deep person and I must be somehow above others, as the majority of people outside the group were seen as evil, wrong or misguided and those in the group were 'saved'' and knew the 'truth' etc.. For years after I left I've swung between having these manic spiritual revelations where I write pages and pages of 'deep', 'spiritual' stuff followed by weeks of depression where everything collapses around me and I am full of doubt and disbelief and tortured by unanswerable questions. Only in the last year have I become more balanced and accepted that it isn't so bad to just be 'normal' - I don't have to spend my life searching for some kind of spiritual awakening in order to be happy, I can just be me and try and be a decent, everyday sort of person. It makes life less exciting on the one hand but on the other it is less frightening and chaotic. I have taken medication over the last year and that's helped me to be more balanced I think, though i know it's not always the answer for everyone. Still though I feel sort of empty sometimes, like I've lost my spark...but at least my life isn't an epic spiritual battle as much as it was before. I suppose being 'normal' takes some getting used to!

denying medical help I am used to also...faith healing, etc...as a child I never went to the doctors, not once! Like you say, if they are so righteous why could they not extend a hand to help one other human being and instead left them to suffer? So many of these cults are complete opposites of what they claim to be on the surface.