Moderator:

1. So ONLY a pastor (which is what someone that went to seminary???) can interpret the letters??? I am from three generations of black women who have spent their lives in the scriptures and memorized more of the Bible than any pastor you know. Women from the deep south that have spent their lives on their knees and when they pray things happen, women who hear from GOD and don't put on a show for anybody...just humble women praying, seeking, LIVING the life of a disciple. These are Bible Scholars and these are my role models and this is how I try to live. Reading the Word, hearing the Word and doing the Word.

Are you trying to tell me that the only good "scripture test" is to go ask a local pastor???? Are you kidding? Where do you find that in the scriptures? Didn't you tell me to look at the Bereans???

I thought the Bible taught us to study to show ourselves approved (that means your study not the pastor's study), I thought the Bible said "all things by faith" (our faith not the pastor's faith)...I thought the Bible said that the day is coming when all shall be judged and we must give an account of every idle word (that means we individually give an account...can't take the pastor to speak for you then). According to scripture, there is a role for the local pastor....but its NOT TO REPLACE JESUS. In recent generations we have gotten away from the role the Bible gave pastors and created a whole new role that a pastor was NEVER intended to have.

2. I entered this discussion because in your efforts to discredit the group that YOU call a cult...you are also attacking manyof the correct Bible doctrines of this alleged cult. I entered the discussion to be sure there is a distinction between the two. As I see it we have two distinct matters....the Letters and the personal interactions of flawed people.

3. How do you judge the letters according to scripture??? by the scripture...using the "SCRIPTURE TEST" mock if you will moderator, but the WORD says it and if you want to twist the WORD to support following man...that's your choice. I've already picked out some key DOCTRINAL points of the letters that this website has in ERROR just torn to shreds as being heretical, non-biblical practices. Do you care to respond to these points?

4. How do you judge disputes between people's personal interactions....by allowing BOTH SIDES to the dispute to make their case before witnesses (fellow Christians). This Rick Ross website COULD be a Awesome place to do this,,,but Moderator you chase off anyone you think is on the other side and rush to judgement without having heard both sides. THAT SIMPLY IS NOT BIBLE....the scriptures are clear on this point...there is no honor in judging a matter when you have only heard one side... PERIOD. Maybe you'll have the same conclusion in the end...maybe you won't......but at least go about the process in an honorable way.

Final Thoughts:

Related to the church....I have no doubt that all those that receive Yahshua Jesus as their LORD and Savior are my brothers and sisters in Christ AND heirs to the promise as I am. Moderator I believe that includes you, so my words are written with a soft hand so as not to offend my LORD's children.

That said, my next words may sting....but its the truth. You are outside the scriptures when you lead people away from the scriptures and JESUS to a local pastor's opinion. Read the Book for yourself and teach others to do the same. If after reading the Bible for yourself, your interpretation is wrong...than at least its done in faith, as JESUS judges the thoughts and intents of the heart. If your wrong interpretation was taken from another person's opinion....what do you think will be Jesus' judgement of your thoughts and your heart? I can't imagine it will be good when we are specifically told to study for ourselves.

As for Timothy and the Trumpet Call Of GOD....I don't know anything about personal interactions...all I know is I've read the letters and checked them against the scriptures and they just simply do not disagree PERIOD.

I have carefully laid out several points based on scripture to make this case. If you'd like to discuss those points GREAT let's continue...if you instead choose to ignore these points, and redirect me to a local pastor because you are not "qualified" to read your Bible and discuss the foundations of your faith, AND then dare to call me a "follower" than that's your choice, but running to someone else to give you an interpretation of scriptures that you should have flowing from your own belly shows who is really doing the following.

Readthebook:

You are repeating yourself.

No one is really interested in debating your beliefs and "doctrines" here.

Believe whatever you wish.

But understand that people don't have the right to do whatever they want in the name of their beliefs, such as prey upon, hurt and/or exploit people.

Speed Rathbun has evidently hurt people over the years.

And people he has hurt have posted here about his bad behavior.

If you want to believe that Rathbun channels "God" through his letters that's your choice, but don't expect others to go along with such a preposterous fantasy.

Pastors are in fact typically much more knowledgeable in the bible than self-taught and self-proclaimed biblical authorities.

Seminarians often learn Greek and/or Hebrew to better understand the scriptures, since English is not the original language in which they were written.

When there is a doctrinal debate based upon a certain scripture, being able to go the source material in Greek or Hebrew is quite helpful, if not essential. And knowing the language in-depth as a Greek or Hebrew scholar, can potentially becomes a pivotal and practical issue in a doctrinal discussion.

But we are not here to talk about why it's better to rely upon reliable resources when studying the bible in-depth.

We are here to discuss Speed Rathbun and his group called "Trumpet Call of God."

And since you have admitted that you have no first-hand knowledge of how the group is run you really cannot comment with any meaningful knowledge here about much of anything regarding the group, such as how the way Rathbun runs it has affected marriages and families.

As one member previously tried to explain to you, Jesus said that you could judge a tree by its fruits. And there are evidently quite a few rotten apples growing on Rathbun's tree.

FYI--the Waco Davidians and followers of Jim Jones both believed their leaders had a special calling and revelation directly from God. They could quote scriptures too, which they used to rationalize virtually everything and anything.

I recall one devoted Davidian telling the press, that everything she was taught by David Koresh came directly from the bible and that she had tested each and every doctrine through the bible and prayer.

Of course she was wrong.

But such is the nature of strongly held beliefs, although people may be sincere, they can be sincerely wrong.

That's why it's useful to get a second opinion from a local pastor or credible biblical scholar.

Please understand that your posts are little more than poorly informed apologies, which don't reflect much meaningful knowledge of the group and how it works.

And if you want to preach your beliefs and doctrines, this is not the appropriate place to do that.

At this point we can only LET THE SCRIPTURES JUDGE...

There is GOD's way to deal with controversy and there is man's way.

I've laid out good old fashioned scripture on GOD's way, you choose man's way..let the scriptures judge

I've laid out how to deal with questions on scripture...you say ask a pastor...I say read your Bible and ask JESUS...let the scriptures judge

I've laid out how to deal with strife between breathern, you ignore the question...I say two sides to every story...let the scriptures judge

Bottom Line -

This page is designed to discuss Timothy and the Trumpet Call of GOD as a cult based on their doctrine and actions yet you refuse to actually discuss their doctrine, though you criticize and belittle it, then focus on their actions, but from only one sided accounts...LET THE SCRIPTURES JUDGE

Why even have a facade of being followers of the MOST HIGH when you refuse to actually follow HIM and do things HIS way according to scripture.

Perhaps you can't hear my words because I'm not a pastor (though NO scripture supports this)
Perhaps you can't hear my words because I'm not telling you what you want to hear (group think syndrome)
Perhaps you can't hear my words because you simply choose not too (self-imposed blindness)

Whatever the reason, the bottom line is I have provided reasonable fair bible based questions that you refuse to answer.

PS...In 2010 what true Bible follower would NOT have Hebrew/Greek software to better understand the English TRANSLATION? And newsflash but MOST and I do mean MOST pastors do NOT speak Hebrew nor Greek...but they have the same software that I have.

Get a second opinion, but DON'T let that be your only opinion.

Dear Readthebook

Please re-read the forum rules you signed as a condition of becoming a registered user here.

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The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize.

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This forum was established for the purpose of allowing those with concerns about certain groups, leaders and designated topics to express and address those concerns.

[forum.culteducation.com]

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corboy
Dear Readthebook

Please re-read the forum rules you signed as a condition of becoming a registered user here.

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The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize.

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This forum was established for the purpose of allowing those with concerns about certain groups, leaders and designated topics to express and address those concerns.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Corboy: I think you and the Moderator have made it crystal clear how this board is run and Who and how doctrine is or is not discussed. I WON'T post anymore comments on doctrine.....I hope EVERYONE ELSE does the same.

ReadtheBook;

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To LLG:
You said Timothy called people to him not the LORD for questions, now I take issue with this. If this was true I would AGREE to everything on this blog. However, One of the MAIN reasons that my husband and I have accepted the letters is because we have seen in NUMEROUS letters where people apparently ask Timothy a question and the LORD's response is always that we should go to the LORD for answers...mind you the LORD goes on to respond, but the priority is clear.

To me this is an absolute CRITICAL point, because if ANY MAN does anything different....that is a sign given to me through scripture and PERSONALLY directly from the LORD to run away from that man!

In a letter called "Harken to Those, Who God Has Sent to You, For They Prepare the Way of Christ's Coming and Will Guide Many Out of the Storm and Many More Through the Storm" I have quoted exactly the words in the letter below:

"You wish to be My students, having many questions, ask Timothy."

While it's easy to ignore this small little sentence and gloss it over by saying that the Lord is saying he will answer you through Timothy, the letter still says go to Timothy. Not God, but Timothy for the answer.

I believe what moderator is trying to say is that we should look to those we trust as godly men or women who walk in faith, whether that be a pastor or bible scholar (who have dedicated thier lives to teaching others the ways of the Lord) or someone in your family who you regard as truly full of integrity and wisdom in the Lord. We need to seek wisdom from a trustworthy source, not from someone we don't know and have no idea if they walk with the Lord in integrity or if they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Proverbs 2:7 says "He grants a treasure of good sense to the godly. He is their shield, protecting those who walk with integrity." and also in Colossians 3:16 "Let the words of Christ, in all their richness, live in your hearts and make you wise. Use his words to teach and counsel each other. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts." It isn't wrong to turn to someone you trust as a source of godly wisdom to get counsel, if that person is infact a trustworthy source. Also, in Matthew 11:19 Jesus said "And I, the Son of Man, feast and drink, and you say, 'He's a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of the worst sort of sinners!' But wisdom is shown to be right by what results from it." We need to test the fruit of the ministry, please read this forum thread completely and you should see that the results of Trumpet call of god results in division, bitterness, judgment etc. not the fruit of the Spirit which is peace, kindness, gentleness etc.

I hope that helps you.

Your sister in Christ,
LLG

LLG,

With all due respect, the Moderator said exactly what he thinks which is to follow a pastor...but can't see how that's not exactly the same as someone following Timothy.

I think that I have said all I can about this under threat of getting removed for defending doctrine...although through two years of history on this board, which I have actually read,,,this same doctrine has been mocked and laughed at extensively by the moderator and others...again their is no format to defend the doctrine.

I've been in cult like groups and this Rick Ross Board has the tell-tell sign of keeping quiet the things they DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT. Been There...Done THAT...how can you assist someone recovering from destructive cults and groups in a cult-like atmosphere?? You make your rules, you yourself break your rules, but punish others who respond and follow your lead.

So, carry on with this message board as before I arrived because clearly Biblical truth has nothing to do with this boards agenda.

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So, carry on with this message board as before I arrived because clearly Biblical truth has nothing to do with this boards agenda.

RTB: Please re-read the rules of use for this message board, which you agreed to as a condition of registration.

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There is no charge to register at this forum. But you must abide by the rules and guidelines as stated below.

This forum was established for the purpose of allowing those with concerns about certain groups, leaders and designated topics to express and address those concerns.

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The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize.

quoted from:

[forum.culteducation.com]

LLG, could you tell us if what was taught at the studies was the same or different from the doctrine and teachings in the letters?