Readthebook,

I appreciate you sharing your story, it sounds as though you have been through a rough time and I can completely understand.

I have to tell you, I found myself shaking after reading your post, you sound so much like me its actually scary. Also, I hope you didn't take offense to my telling you to be careful, I just know how this group can hurt people as it hurt me and my family too.

I'm not sure if you read the post that Wendy put up earlier which was my testimony of this group and how it relates to the signs of a group being a destructive cult. I was in the studies myself. I personally heard Timothy talk to the group and read personal letters addressed directly to me. The letters seem so close to the Bible that it is very hard to see (at least it was for me) that there is a little "poison" mixed in. I want to quote something you said in your recent posts:

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In doing this for three years, we have come to understand that GOD wants us to love Yahshua Jesus and obey Him because we love Him and to obey Him is just easy stuff of loving Him and loving your neighbor. That’s it!!! Nothing earth shaking…just have the testimony of JESUS and do good stuff and its good for everybody. Super simplified but that’s the GOD message.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree to that statement. Jesus wants us to obey him in loving Him and our neighbour. He also wants us to trust Him when He said that it is finished. He paid the price for us, completely, there wasn't one thing he couldn't cover, he did it all. This group doesn't teach that, at least not in person. Did you know that there were members of the group who were kicked out of the studies (by God we were told) because they didn't observe the Sabbath? or didn't give enough of thier time / money? or still attended church on Sunday?

God paid the entire price, the only thing we need to do is believe on his Son and accept Him as our Lord and Saviour. If there are extra requirements (ie when we worship God, how much we give, where we worship God) than that would mean that Jesus didn't pay the full price. He teaches us to forgive as he forgave us, why then would Timothy teach us to reject others who love God but go to church on sunday, or anyone for that matter, who are we to judge God's servants? If these extra rules also apply, than that would mean that God doesn't love us unconditionally it would mean he only loves us conditionally. I know you don't believe that, and niether do I. Jesus loves us wholly, no matter what we do or did. Do you also remember who added rules that people had to follow in order to be right with God? The Pharassees and Sadducees.

I'm glad to hear you wouldn't want to join the studies, I hope you will sincerely pray for the Lord to show you the truth in this matter. I will be praying for you too.

with much love in Christ,
LLG

Thank you for your gentle response (really I appreciate it!!)

I think I understand your sentiments better based on your post. It sounds like you more have a problem with the doctrine of TCOG and because their doctrine is not agreeable and frankly strange to you, you equate this with a cult. But, honestly my friend, these practices, everyone is bible based. I'm kinda reading along looking for the smoking gun and its just not there.

Here are some examples.

1. If I hear you correctly, your saying because Jesus has done it all, we don’t have to work as hard as JESUS to stay out of sin. But I interpret this as because JESUS had to endure, persevere, work and sacrifice, that we are to follow HIS example and do the same. That means we must do the works and NOT because works will save....Only faith saves, but WORKS is the evidence of our faith. Subtle, but do you see the difference? So Sabbath keeping and obeying GOD in general is part of the evidence of our faith...not to mention our love of GOD.

2. The need to stay out of churches. The Protestant church is nothing more than the catholic church repackaged, but still filled with doctrines of men. Before we found the Trumpet letters we began doing research on the history of the church and found disturbing changes by the Catholic church that the Protestant church still accepts and practices. In our research we concluded that the Church is basically a mixture of half- truths and false religion. Despite this, we also concluded that the people in the church ARE IN FACT children of GOD, but they have inherited the lies from previous generations. (Me included) Therefore, on our own we decided to stay OUT of the churches because they are teaching lies on top of lies, repackaged in lies and they just don't know it. We stay out and pray for them from a distance.
Examples of Church Lies:
1. The Roman Catholic church changed GOD's calendar and merged pagan days with Holy Days. This includes changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

2. The early Christians, known as the WAY, persecuted by the Romans, kept the laws of GOD and GOD's Holy Days and were put to death for NOT accepting Rome's changes.

3. Many doctrines taught or accepted in the church today were preached AGAINST in the Bible. A GREAT example is the prosperity doctrine. Peter warned us that men would make merchandise of us and is that not exactly what we see in the church. Today we have pastors that brag and boast on national television about their personal airplanes, mansions, luxury cars and fine jewelry all provided by their loving members. Oh, and though the church speaks against GOD’s Holy Days, I see a number of Sunday churches cashing in on a “special offering” they say is “required” on these Holy Days…but they don’t actually observe the days. This is no secret, just turn on a Christian TV station and if you can stomach it, just listen and you will hear all that I have said here is true.

4. The spirit of antichrist is ALL over the church. The scriptures warn us many times that if any man denies Christ is come in the flesh he is of the spirit of antichrist. Well every single time a pastor pulls his members to him instead of pushing them to Christ, this is a denying of Christ’s coming in the flesh and is of the spirit of antichrist. I have never, never, never been in a church where the pastor did not ALLOW or INSIST that the people to come to him for guidance, direction, counseling, advice etc as if they themselves were JESUS able to answer all questions. NEVER From problems with their children to problems in their finances. However, the bible tells us to take ALL these matters directly to CHRIST…NOT to a pastor. And if the Pastor is a true man of GOD, he would be directing these members (sheep) to JESUS and away from himself so as not to mislead GOD’s sheep and deny Christ.
The issue here is it takes a humble person to say “I can’t give you an answer, but let’s ask JESUS.”

Another example of the spirit of antichrist in the church is all the funny business with STRANGE signs and wonders like gold teeth, gold dust, oil coming from hands and more. I can find absolutely not ONE example of any of this stuff in the bible. That said, there is evidence that this stuff actually happens in the church, but I can tell you this is not by the Holy Spirit.
I don’t expect anyone on this board to agree with me and infact you may think me as strange and wacky as you think TCOG, but I at least hope you will give my comments some thought.
For the record, based on the information provided on this site, I can’t find any fault with TCOG’s doctrines, teachings and activities.

Finally, I don't want to annoy you, but if you would like, I can pull the many many scriptures (new testament and old) that support these practices.

Thank you for your prayers,

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Readthebook
For the record, based on the information provided on this site, I can’t find any fault with TCOG’s doctrines, teachings and activities.

Finally, I don't want to annoy you, but if you would like, I can pull the many many scriptures (new testament and old) that support these practices.

Thank you for your prayers,

If you have read this thread you will notice quite a few families in peril and turmoil because of the self-proclaimed "prophet" Speed Rathbun.

You don't actually support Rathbun's spliting families up, do you?

Readthebook:

Please don't preach doctrines here and/or rant against churches.

The topic of this thread is Speed Timothy Rathbun and his so-called "Trumpet Call of God."

Stay on topic.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

These are the rules you agreed to before posting here.

From your post it appears you have pretty much decided to throw in with Rathbun and accept his supposed "letters from God" as somehow authentic.

That's your choice, but it doesn't seem to be a sound one given the facts.

"For the record, based upon the information provided on this site" Rathbun appears to be little more than a con man running a scam on religious folks such as yourself.

The idea that he is the chosen one picked to transmit letters from God is fairly ridiculous.

God doesn't need Rathbun's help for anything.

The bible remains the specific source for Christians and it warns about "false prophets."

Jesus said that "many will come in my name," but that he will not know them.

Jesus also warned, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Rathbun seems to be one of those "wolves" Jesus warned about.

Hopefully, when Rathbun's prophecies fail, instead of accepting whatever new spin and apologies he offers, you will move on.

“How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously..." (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).

There is no provision in the bible for the prophet getting a second chance to spin a new date etc.

In my opinion the Rathbun group fits the classical profile of a "cult."

Rathbun has hurt many people, apparently virtually destroyed at least one marriage and almost sabotaged another.

Maybe you should take a break to thinks this through more carefully before you follow this man and his supposed revelations to your own detriment.

It might also benefit your analysis if you had some input from local pastors and credible scholars of the bible in your area.

Go to some of the churches Rathbun rants against and get a second, third and fourth opinion. See what they have to say about his pronouncements.

Remember the Bereans?

"they received the message with great eagerness," but then "examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true" (Acts 17:11).

Rathbun certainly is no better than Paul.

So why not check things out that Rathbun says with the help of local seminarians, pastors and biblical scholars in your area?

Paul didn't seem to mind when the Bereans questioned him, so Rathbun who is not an apostle, pastor, seminary graduate, accredited bible teacher, or acknowledged biblical scholar, shouldn't mind if people question, scrutinize and evaluate him thoroughly.

And it's important when evaluating an apparent "con man" like Rathbun to have some credible experts unwind the way he twists scriptures and manipulates people.

Apparently you have thus far been unable to do this on your own.

If what Rathbun says is the "truth" it will stand.

As the New Testament says, ""For we can do nothing against the truth,but for the truth" (2Corinthians 13:8).

And Jesus said, "you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:32).

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I think I understand your sentiments better based on your post. It sounds like you more have a problem with the doctrine of TCOG and because their doctrine is not agreeable and frankly strange to you, you equate this with a cult.

Actually ReadtheBook, the reasons posted by Wendy (originally from me) are why I equate this group with a destructive cult. The reason is because of thier fruit, not necessarily thier doctrine. Jesus said by thier fruit you will know them. The fruit of this group is not love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (see Galatians 5:22) but rather hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group (see Galatians 5:20)

I do struggle with the doctrine as well, both for and against but I believe the Lord is helping me walk through that and untangle the mess to find the truth. My mind has been confused by this group and I am still working out what I actually believe in that way so I dont feel fully comfortable debating doctrine with you. I'm not sure anymore what I myself believe and wouldn't want to steer you in a wrong direction anyway. I trust the Lord will guide each of us according to His perfect plan.

One other thing, just to make you aware, there is actually a letter where Timothy tells the readers to come to himself (Timothy not the Lord) for any questions to be answered, just like you said of the pastors in the churches you have been to. I'm not sure which letter it is in anymore, but I'm sure you have either read it already or will if you continue to read them.

LLG:
I respect your response...if anything I have said is difficult to read than please TOTALLY IGNORE IT....I'm just a well meaning woman, but flawed like all people. INSTEAD, go directly to JESUS with your questions and HE who is flawless can and will lead you if you let HIM.

To Moderator:
There is noway to discuss the "cult" characteristics without discussing doctrine. What I mean by this is, if your struggling with this doctrine, or flat out disagree with it, as MOST do, then there is no way you can view TCOG as anything BUT a cult. However if you agreed with the doctrine...your view would be very different.

Back in 2006, when I first received understanding to "obey the LORD" I tried to share this with everyone and let me tell you how people responded with total RAGE to be told they are supposed to "obey the LORD." Now, think about that statement. Why does this idea of obeying GOD bring so much fear, confusion and anger to people's minds? The idea of "obeying GOD" was "cult-like" to most I shared this with. Do you see how "doctrine" can very easily be characterized as "cult."

Moderator:
You suggest above that I go to a local pastor to ask them? To me, that's no different than following a man...I would NEVER trust the interpretation of the Word of GOD to a man. Pastors, particularly my old pastor, are educated in seminaries taught by men and they come away with an interpretation or docrtrine that is agreed to by men, where GOD is nowhere in the picture. We see this in the bible where the MAJORITY of educated men (Pharisees) agreed to crucify JESUS based on their AGREED interpretations.

The Bereans did not run down to the local synagogue and ask the pastor what he thought...they searched the scriptures for themselves....which is EXACTLY what we do...in fact we call ourselves Bereans. In our meetings if someone has an opinion thought, dream, vision whatever...you have to back it up with scripture IN CONTEXT or else it is not accepted. And then, we still ask the Holy Spirit for confirmation. You know who DOES NOT do this is the majority of pastors at the local church...they inherited their fathers interpretation, who inherited their father's interpretation who inherited the Catholic interpretation. The end of which is the unholy doctrine of men or worse doctrine of demons.

When I read the Bible, I look closely to the book of Acts and try to gleam "how the early church lived" and then compare "how we live to that" and at the end of the day, we are trying to MATCH the early church. Being separate from sin (as much as possible), providing for each other and for those in need TOTALLY (we share ALL our resources with people, not a church building...including money, time, talent), testing the words of any man proclaiming to be the mouthpiece of GOD with the scriptures.

To LLG:
You said Timothy called people to him not the LORD for questions, now I take issue with this. If this was true I would AGREE to everything on this blog. However, One of the MAIN reasons that my husband and I have accepted the letters is because we have seen in NUMEROUS letters where people apparently ask Timothy a question and the LORD's response is always that we should go to the LORD for answers...mind you the LORD goes on to respond, but the priority is clear.

To me this is an absolute CRITICAL point, because if ANY MAN does anything different....that is a sign given to me through scripture and PERSONALLY directly from the LORD to run away from that man!
So, while I have not seen the letter you refer too, and I don't DOUBT that it exist, I have seen well over 50 letters that say we should each go to Yahshua Jesus with our questions. That meets the test the LORD gives us.

THAT SAID....I will be watching very, very, very, very closly to make sure there is NOT SWING AWAY from this practice. (again using the BIBLE's TEST and not my own)

Final thought which is a question: Who do you think would benefit the most from ALL CREATION disobeying GOD?

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Sparky

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Readthebook
For the record, based on the information provided on this site, I can’t find any fault with TCOG’s doctrines, teachings and activities.

Finally, I don't want to annoy you, but if you would like, I can pull the many many scriptures (new testament and old) that support these practices.

Thank you for your prayers,

If you have read this thread you will notice quite a few families in peril and turmoil because of the self-proclaimed "prophet" Speed Rathbun.

You don't actually support Rathbun's spliting families up, do you?

Sparky:

As a Berean, this is my response....Jesus said in Matthew 10:35 that HE came to set a man against his father and daughter against her mother......this surely put families in peril and turmoil but, according the JESUS THE CHRIST, it must be this way because NOT ALL in a family would believe and follow the LORD.

Readthebook:

Rathbun's various doctrines are really not the primary issue, it's the way he runs the group and how his group hurts his followers and their families.

Rathbun claims to be God's spokesperson, and therefore anyone that disagrees with his supposed "letters from God" allegedly disagrees with God.

Or as you claim, "understanding to 'obey the LORD."

This is why as you say, "there is no way you can view TCOG as anything BUT a cult."

We agree on this point.

Ironically you claim that you won't listen to advice and/or accept input from any local biblical scholar, pastor or seminarian in your area, because that would be "following a man."

You inconsistently insist, "I would NEVER trust the interpretation of the Word of GOD to a man."

But that's exactly what you have done and continue to do by believing Rathbun.

You have chosen to follow Rathbun's interpretations and even his unlikely self-proclaimed "letters from God."

But unlike a local pastor in your area Rathbun makes up his so-called "Word of God" as he goes along through his letters. And Rathbun has no formal training or credible educational background to back up any of his interpretations/opinions regarding the bible.

Finally, like many cult members caught up in a supposedly "bible based" cults you attempt to use Matthew 10:35 to justify how Rathbun hurts families through his influence.

This is really "the clincher," so to speak. You are so controlled by Rathbun's twisted scriptures and his letters, you have confused rejecting Speed T. Rathbun with faithfully following "the Lord."

The families that reject the claim that somehow Mr. Rathbun has been chosen by "God" to transmit "letters from God," doesn't mean they have chosen not to follow the Lord. They have chosen to not to follow Speed T. Rathbun and instead remain faithful to God alone.

See Mathew 24:5; Mark 13:6 and Mathew 7:15.

You have become the prey of what the New Testament calls a "false teacher."

If you took the time to do the proper research as previously suggested, you could and would readily see this.

And if you don't go along with Rathbun eventually the wolf will show through.

Think and pray about this.

In my opinion Rathbun is a fraud and a destructive cult leader, who uses the bible and God in a self-serving scheme to manipulate and use people.

Moderator:

Did you actually read my post???
WE DO NOT follow Timothy!!! We Dont Know Him. We Don't Know anything about Him. We have read the letters and CHECKED them against the and as I previously said...they do NOT disagree PERIOD!

We follow the JESUS through HIS written Word. Every other word, letter, dream, vision or idea must past the scripture test and if it does, according to scripture.....we need not fear it. Why do you keep saying I follow Timothy???? You seem to not be able to distinguish what I am trying to communicate.

I agree with the doctrine because it agrees with the Bible. That's all.

Readthebook:

FYI--His name is actually Speed Timothy Rathbun.

By believing Rathbun's letters are from God and placing allowing them that authority, you are following Rathbun.

By choosing to associate with Rathbun and not attending a local church or fellowship in your area, you are following Rathbun.

By defending Rathbun's letters repeatedly here at this message board you are demonstrating your loyalty to Rathbun and following him.

What "scripture test"?

Anyone seriously interested in testing Rathbun's letters would print them out and take them to a local pastor or credible biblical scholar to review and discuss.

Any passtor or credible biblical scholar with could easily disprove Rathbun's self-proclaimed "letters from God."

Claiming that the letters are from "God" is simply Rathbun's way of garnering attention and attempting to provide his writings with special authority.

I have seen the letters Rathbun writes and distributes.

The letters are nothing more than his fanciful creation, and he is the author. They have no other significance, other than providing a basis for his publishing business.

If you "follow JESUS through HIS written Word" you don't need someone like Speed T. Rathbun.