agape:

It isn't "off topic" to see if "Readthebook" sees any other church as equal to studying with Rathbun.

Where could a persona be equally spiritually fed--can you name a church specifically?

Is there any church in the world that you can name specifically, which would be an alternative to Speed T. Rathbun's "Trumpet Call of God."

BTW--What is your connection to Rathbun?

Do you have any association or link to him historically in any way, shape or form?

When Rathbun's prophecy fails and he spins it around for yet another date, will still be a believer in him as a "prophet"?

Agape and ReadtheBook:

This is LLG's post from Sept 10. In my opinion, she makes excellent points on how Trumpet Call of God meets the criterion for a cult. Take the time to read it and then tell us again why YOU don't think it's a cult.



list of Robert Jay Lifton's 8 Point Model of Thought Reform:

1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

We went through an entire Sabbath study on “Being Separate” and many times were told we need to “Come out” of the church and “Be separate” from the wicked and unbelievers (which is anyone who did not believe in the Bible and the Letters). ( [www.google.com]) I had reservations about separating completely from my family and so during the beginning of one of the Sabbath studies (the Skype call had been opened early) I asked Timothy about it. He told me “didn’t you hear the study before on it?” (a guilt and shame thing) and then told me he believes God does want us to be completely separate from our families (meaning if they weren’t “believers” as defined above). After that I sent an email to my whole family (including Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, etc.) to tell them if they couldn’t accept the letters I couldn’t be around them but told them if they ever wanted to know more about Jesus I would come running to speak with them. I missed family reunions, birthdays and weddings in the interest of “being separate from the things of this world”.
We were also told through letters ( [www.google.com]
and [www.google.com] are a couple of examples) and conversations that we should “Let go” of worldly things (both physical and emotional) and not read anything which wasn’t the Lord’s word in the Bible or the letters, or watch anything “worldly” including news and even the weather channel.
We were also told through the letters that we needed to “Silence the scoffers”, scoffers being anyone who criticized Timothy or the letters, by separating from them physically or blocking them (if it was on facebook or something they would be blocked so they could no longer contribute to the conversation threads on the person’s facebook page). The reason we were told is so the scoffer does not cause more harm to himself by persecuting God’s servant and mocking God. ( [www.google.com]
and [www.google.com] )

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group. (this is also sometimes called “Planned Spontaneity”)

Of course all of the letters fall into this category, the main basis of this group is that Timothy is a “prophet of God in this modern day” and so if you believe the letters are from God than every single time we got one we were on a special kind of “high” feeling as though we were “special chosen and privileged” children of God to have him speak directly to us (even if it was addressed to another member in the group or to society at large it was always “and for those who have ears to hear”). I also received 2 letters directly to me from the Lord which heightened the sense of the Lord speaking into my life through his prophet. They both came after intense “praying and seeking” the Lord, but without realizing it I also kind of was a part of orchestrating the outcome. Both times I involved leaders from the group in my struggles and questions prior to receiving the letters. The first time was a question I had which I sent to Trent and Timothy to see if they could seek understanding from the Lord as well, I never received a direct answer from either of them but during one of the studies during the week I “divinely” got my response in a letter addressed to me “live” in the study even though I hadn’t asked the question directly during the study. The letter started off with a “correcting” tone as though the Lord was telling me I should have known the answer already out of the Truth which is how we are to follow the Lord (sorry if that doesn’t make sense trying to at least attempt at being anonymous here). Then it went into encouraging me to be forthright with the Truth at all times and in all seasons and otherwise if I didn’t I was being a horrible person who didn’t have love in me but hate. Of course the overall tone of the letter was in a Fatherly correcting but loving tone so it made me want to please Him all the more and try harder. There was also a part in the letter which was later adopted as part of our “loaded language” and became a huge part of my own “thought stopping process” as will be discussed below. Later the letter was added to the volumes but some of it was changed radically from the original and no longer was even addressed to me nor was the “answer to my question” included, and we were told that when Timothy “reads it over with the Lord” sometimes He has him change some of it in order to more accurately portray what He was telling him. The second was after a very difficult time I had at home, as I was trying to “follow” the letters and try harder, I was doing something that was only “commanded” of the watchmen (leaders) of the group so I could try and be “extra faithful”. Doing this caused tension in my life, a BIG amount of tension and though I felt justified in my response to the tension I felt extremely depressed. Taking this back a few steps, I had a very clear dream of the kind I’ve never had before prior to joining the group when I first began to obey what the letters were revealing to me. This of course confirmed my belief in the letters early on, but it also gave me a mystery which I believed came from God. After making a mistake early on in my time with the group (essentially hiding what I was doing) I was completely repentant and emailed Trent to say I was sorry (even though he likely had no idea in the first place). In that email I mentioned the dream, knowing that others had had dreams interpreted by the Lord through the letters Timothy wrote, because I wanted to know if there was something I could learn from the dream which would help me grow (I was panicked knowing the time was close and I had so far to go before I was likely to be deemed “worthy” of rapture). Trent sent the email off to Timothy and Jayse (another prophet in the group) with the disclaimer to me that it would be interpreted “Lord willing”. Less than 24 hours later I received a response from Trent that the Lord had given Jayse a message for me and he had copied part of a conversation between him and Jayse in the body of the email. Jayse said in the email body that the Lord told me that the dream wasn’t the focus but then went into how much He loved me. That tidbit made me so excited I could barely keep my feet on the ground. Trent told me that it still needed to be “scribed” which he said meant that Timothy would pray over it and Amy would spell check and format it. It was at least a month and I hadn’t heard of my letter, but seeing it as a test in patience I tried to wait and not say anything. I once emailed about it but Timothy told me they had 60 letters they had to go through and so mine was “on the list” and that the Lord had prioritized the list to make it easier on Timothy but I would be receiving it soon enough so I left it alone. Finally when the big tension I spoke about above happened and I was so depressed I couldn’t wait any longer, I needed to hear about the Lord’s love for me as Jayse mentioned was in the letter. I emailed Timothy and Amy to see if I could just read the “unedited” version I didn’t care about spelling mistakes and stuff I just needed to hear the Lord’s words to me, I explained the tension I had gone through and was going through to show why it was so important to me. Amy responded and said that Tim prayed and that the Lord said that Tim could work on my letter next. I was so overwhelmed that the Lord would put my letter over what I thought would have to have been more important letters and kind of felt bad that I had said anything. Amy told me that I couldn’t read the un-scribed version because Jayse was a “prophet in training” kind of thing and so Timothy needed to read it over with the Lord to make sure it was accurate (paraphrased of course not her exact words). Late on the night before the Sabbath study I got the letter sent to me and then we also read it during the Sabbath study. That letter was a completely different tone than the first letter, it encouraged me and made me feel loved by God as a special daughter, and even eluded that he I would be one of those raptured as his bride and told me to “take this dress and wear it well” which meant that I needed to be holy as a “worthy bride of Christ”. The letter didn’t interpret the dream but said that later he would interpret my dream through his servant so I would know he had never abandoned me.


3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or
personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."

There was an emphasis on purity in this group, as mentioned earlier we were to “rid ourselves of the world” in us by refraining from “worldly” television and books, from “worldly” people which were pretty much everyone except the group (even those who believed the Bible but not the letters or beliefs of the group were in a sense “worldly” because they were seen as similar to the Pharisees because they couldn’t see “what the Lord is doing” in our generation and were proud and clinging to the “deceit” of the church), and were not to cling to “worldly” goods (which was why some were departed because they didn’t give to others).
I remember being pretty much terrified to watch almost anything on TV with my husband and would bury myself in my computer to block out the TV from my vision or hearing (I would listen to MP3s of the letters with my earphones). I couldn’t even watch Christian TV because I saw that as deception, though for some reason they did endorse Spongebob as safe but I haven’t really been able to figure out why that is. I also remember a time when after reading one of the letters I went out to our deck (early in the morning) and fell to my knees praying and crying for the Lord to “remove the world from me” that I didn’t want anything to do with the world, only Him, I felt so ashamed of myself that I was sobbing uncontrollably out there on my knees on my deck. I prayed that the Lord would “purge the dross” in me (meaning to get rid of any impurities) and make me worthy of Him.



4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

The group was very open with each other, we were like family, closer than family and so we shared a lot during the studies and in prayer. Also in Skype conversations in the “off hours” the Skype windows were open 24hrs a day for anyone to come on and talk with whomever else was online (I suspect there were always leaders watching because they always seemed to show up) and the conversations were always there for anyone to view later. We worshiped “YahuShua” (which we were told was the Lord’s real name) with a passion I had not seen anywhere else. Many times I came to the group (we called each other family as well, brothers, sisters and friends) with problems I was having at home and told them how I struggled and what I was feeling inside. Once I told them that I felt like I was being unloving when I told my husband I needed to tell my kids that there was no Santa, Easter bunny, Tooth Fairy etc. and he was crying asking me not to destroy their fantasies and ruin the happiness and his favorite season (Christmas), that they were his kids This is LLG's post on Sept 10, 2010. I thought she did a good job of explaining how Trumpet Call of God met the criterion of a cult. Take the time to read it and then tell us again why you don't think TCOG is a cult.too. Others in the group shared their own struggles with going through the “culture change” around Christmas and the like as well.
Later on in my time there, Trent announced that he had come across these “counseling techniques” to discover your “true self” and wanted to practice so he was asking for volunteers to pair up for him to practice counseling them. I signed up enthusiastically, but since I was still fairly new compared to many of them I hadn’t really found any particularly close friends in the group (though I emailed Trent a lot because he brought me into the group and I felt close to him because of that) I asked Trent if he knew of anyone who didn’t have a partner but then found someone on my own and off we went. The counseling took place over Skype and there were 2 sessions. The ultimate result of the “counseling” was to categorize yourself into your Primary and Secondary “self” categories of “Thinker”, “Feeler”, or “Doer” and we were told that was our “true self” which we were given by God. Then we went through and discussed our “worldly self” which we learned through events in our lives which shaped us, and thirdly how we felt and thought about God and his role in our lives in difficult times. In the part of the counseling about “worldly self” we were asked to tell him about some of the most painful memories we have and how we dealt with pain and hurt in our lives. In the end we found out how we acted, interacted and thought about things and why. The thing is, now so did Trent and he recorded the sessions which (and I’ll admit I am assuming here) probably were shared with Timothy as well. Now, I have to be honest, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I’m a pretty open book so the counseling sessions probably showed ME more about me than anyone else because the things we found out were probably pretty obvious to anyone else I imagine. Part of what I found out was that I have trouble with feeling accepted by others and often feel as though I am a burden on people so after that Trent continually re-affirmed me by calling me Friend and saying that he loved me (in a brotherly way of course). I felt closer to him after that and felt he really truly cared about me as his sister and I shared even more with him as he taught me and helped me through my struggles and I felt privileged to be under his tutelage.[/quote]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 08:21AM by wendyjduncan.

To whom it may concern:

"Agape" has been banned from this message board.

"Also for the record, whenever someone post a comment against your stated views of HATE the Trumpet Letters, members of this site accuse them of being a member of the Trumpet CAll of GOD infiltrating this site. Well I am not a member and just learned about them 1 to 2 months ago. I don't know any one involed with or related to the organization. I found their site and read the letters...not all, but about 75% of them and that's a lot."

Was it one or two months ago?
ReadtheBook, for someone who just one month (or two months) ago heard about Timothy you sure have invested a lot of your time in order to defend him, someone you'd never heard of before. That sounds kind of suspicious to me.

Just so you know ReadtheBook, by the time I had been reading the letters for one month, I was 100% hooked in. It doesn't take long.... least it didn't for me.

Be Careful, please.

I believe "Readthebook" is already 100% hooked in. That is why he/she is no longer posting here. He/she dropped some defense of Rathbun into the discussion and then ran away like a troll.

Exactly like a troll.

I know why your fearful and suspicious of people because I’ve been through the same or similar abuse from religious organizations. I too was afraid, confused, hurt and then just mad. But again, I am not a member of the Trumpet Call of GOD group, nor do I know ANYBODY that is.

My comments were sincere and honest to the best of my ability. I am going to try and see your response as merely a knee jerk reaction and hope before you respond again, you will give my words some thought.

If you’d like to ask my interest in all this, that’s a fair question so let me explain.

First, I am not affiliated with ANY church organization. My husband and I have come out of the churches (really kicked out) and fellowship in our home with our family and close friends. We study the bible closely and pray to the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the name of Yahshua Jesus. Under no circumstance do we follow the teachings, doctrine or words of ANY man. However, sadly it has not always been that way.

Prior to this marriage, I was involved in three ministries that abused and nearly destroyed me. Two mainstream organizations and one unorthodox, but all three crushed me mentally and emotionally.

While in one of the mainstream churches, I began studying the words of Jesus (I did not know His Hebrew name at that time) and saw many references to keeping the laws of GOD. I made the mistake of pointing these out to my mainstream pastor to which he responded by threatening me not to say a word to anyone else in the church about these things or he would tell them I was in a cult. Again, these were my questions from my own study of the bible which I asked him to review with me, but he also reminded me of all his degrees and honors and he did not need to read anything or pray to know I was bewitched to even ask such questions. This was in the Spring of 2006.

We learned first hand from the “Prophet” of a non-mainstream church group (and NOT Timothy) the danger of following man instead of the Bible ONLY. I’d rather not describe the atrocities we suffered under that man, but in general we were always under threat of disassociation or the wrath of God according to this self-professed “Prophet.”

Since 2007, my husband and I have studied on our own. We read and study the Bible while praying and asking GOD to teach us and help us to understand. In doing this for three years, we have come to understand that GOD wants us to love Yahshua Jesus and obey Him because we love Him and to obey Him is just easy stuff of loving Him and loving your neighbor. That’s it!!! Nothing earth shaking…just have the testimony of JESUS and do good stuff and its good for everybody. Super simplified but that’s the GOD message.

We came across Trumpet call of GOD letters in August 2010 and together have read now about 75% and found they match with our own study of scriptures. We really don’t know Tim or even HOW to participate in those Bible Studies. We watch the videos of Youtube and visit the website where you can read or download ALL the letters for free. We have never paid 1 dime to Trumpet…in fact on the website it says they do not take donations so no links to pay. Also, the books can be downloaded for free. We have never paid to download anything.

That said, because of our past, I just cannot follow a man….it is too too dangerous…but I can and do follow scripture and I am telling you…I read the Bible and read the letters and they match.
As long as those letters keep matching with the Bible…I can follow THAT, but the second ANYTHING starts to look cock-eyed…my comments will most certainly change.

In all honesty, I don’t know if I would want to be in communication with the group…I’ve just had so many bad experiences and that’s between me and GOD to heal my hurts…but despite my hurts I can objectively evaluate and TEST these letters against the scriptures and TRUST in that answer.

For the record, not trying to sway anyone to my faith views...not sure how to speak to this subject without some of that coming into discussion.

Also...you ask about recommending a church...I would not recommend a single 1. NOT 1. I would recommend we all stay home and speak to GOD with open honest hearts without the influence of men who are flawed....as we all are.

Last note....I homeschool my children and am very busy so I am not able to post as often as some of you. But, I will respond to your post.