And also, I know Jayse. He came alongside my brother to our home here in Missouri, and stayed with us for a week. I know that he had a hard life before becoming a member of this cult, but does anyone in this forum know Christopher? Chris Underwood? That's my brother.. just wondering how he is doing...

@micheleu please pm me!

Yes Micheleu, your brother is one of the higher ups and I believe he is living in Nebraska. I believe the last I heard (which has been a few months) he was living in Tim's father in law (Art's) old house with Jayse. Cults alienate members from their families so they will gain complete control over them without any outside influences. Him moving there makes it near impossible for him to leave and move without it being akward or being threatened. Members lose their identity in this cult. Their former life and aquaintances are wiped clean and replaced with the cult life and members. Many in the group can get dissociative identity disorder from having to put on a picture perfect appearance while suffering on the inside.

Do not take it personal, I am sure Chris still loves and cares for you, but he thinks he will be contaminated and somehow lose his crown if he remains in contact with you. I am sure he feels like communicating with you is being disrespectful to God (which is not biblical). If you were a Christian this would be called 'disfellowshipping'. Talking about him here in public may only drive him further away, but you may need to contact other former members in private who knew Chris better that may be able to provide you with more information. I personally do not think Chris is going to leave on his own will, especially now that he has a wife and baby involved. But, I will definitely be praying for you.

@ micheleu! it is very sad that they have to be separate from those who don't believe in the letters or the prophet. u can find so many instances in scripture where jesus came to restore not condemn he came to love not destroy or divide he came to save not separate he came for grace not law. well, since they are so entrenched with the "letters", the holy bible doesn't have the same meaning for them. there is not arguing loving or debating them back. trent has shunned me several times and it hurt so deeply. i as his wife didn't let that bother me because i found him every time & made him speak to me. it still didn't take away the hurt. this was during a time i thought that he was cheating with another flocker named tiara. i was so hurt and feeling hopeless. he does live in a separate city in a separate home than me and we hardly see each other which is very dysfunctional for a marriage. please surround yourself with support prayers and ppl who you can relate this with. i found no one @ church who understood. i haven't gone to church in over a yr and don't care to go back. it is different for a spouse than it is for a sibling however that does not lessen the hurt you have. i was very very angry in the beginning. i felt betrayed abandoned cheated and frankly like he divorced me. this is a great place to get support comfort and help that you need. i would suggest you get wendy duncan's book, "i can't hear god anymore". [www.amazon.com]

(((hugs)))

Heather

@ashbeck i'm so sorry you've had to go thru this and it's very encouraging that you have recovered well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2012 04:02AM by frogla.

Quote
braku
What would you guys suggest to be the best way to approach someone about getting out of the Trumpet Call of God. I went to high school with this kid, didn't really ever hang out with him besides being on a minor league baseball team with him maybe once. Anyway, I am friends with him on facebook. I noticed all of his posts about God and everything, all coming from the Trumpet Call of God group. I have talked to him a few times like bringing up a few Bible verses like 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "but test everything; hold fast what is good," and stuff. He just brought up letters from Timothy. I didn't want to offend him at all so I didn't really try to argue with him at all. I have also talked to him a few other times asking a couple questions about things that he as posted, like end of days sort of things. Even though I don't know him that well, I really don't want to see someone mislead. I a just not sure how to approach it. I would truly appreciate it if you guys could give me some advice. Thank you so much.

@braku build a bridge of trust communication and honesty. don't debate with your friend on any of this. find some common ground to work from. keep it simple and love the guy. don't try to change the friend @ all. if he wants to talk about tcog then let them but always try to find opportunities to plant seeds of truth. do NOT jam anything down their throats and just let him be himself. also, you can learn alot about how to communicate with a book by steve hassan called [www.amazon.com] i have actually worked one on one with this guy.

if you message me i can give you more resources if you need the extra help.


Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan

The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013

See [www.culteducation.com]

The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.

News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.

RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.

RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.

Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.

Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."

Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.

See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]

Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.

RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.

RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.

To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."

See [www.cultnews.com]

Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:

"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."

RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.

Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).

Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:02PM by rrmoderator.

"when prophesy fails" [www.amazon.com]
It was written in 1956 but it is still the classic academic study on the effect of failed prophecy. The coauthor of the book, Leon Festinger, first coined the phrase “cognitive dissonance” as his way of defining the affect he documented as part of this fascinating study. Festinger’s team of researchers actually infiltrated one group to record a first-hand account of what happened when the clock struck midnight and the prophecy failed. I think you will see immediate parallels between Timothy and the different cases cited by Festinger. there is almost a universal affect failed prophecy has on members. This will help us understand what we are up against when someone you love willfully chooses to believe a lie even in the face of irrefutable fact.

Deceived vs. Deceiver – A Matter of the Will
The other factor that must be remembered is that on any journey into false teaching there is a subtle shift that takes place over time. One starts down that path as the person who is being deceived but the further you go, the role often switches from simply being deceived to being a deceiver. This is an important distinction. Anyone can make a mistake or be mislead but this is completely different. At some point it becomes a matter of volition – that is a conscious decision involving willful disobedience.

As the Holy Spirit tries to correct the error through the Word of God (Deuteronomy 18:20-22) coupled with the blatant example of failed prophecy, the deceived individual must make a decision. Satan will always tempt the follower to continue in the error, to disobey the plain word of God, and to rationalize away the failed prediction. As the follower continues willfully choosing to quench the Spirit, his conscience becomes more and more callused. Over time, he is no longer sensitive to God’s word or the Holy Spirit’s warning. This is what Wendy Duncan means by her book title, “I Can’t Hear God Anymore.” Eventually, God will give up on the person and reluctantly turn them that sin they so love. In the case of the lost man, God gives them over to the “strong delusion” they are craving so “that they should believe a lie” (2 Thess. 2:11). In the case of a disobedient believer, they will face the horror of being “delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme” (1 Tim 1:20).

If people would obey God and honestly apply the biblical test of a prophet in Deuteronomy 18:20-28, we would not today have 14 million Mormons, 17 million Jehovah’s Witnesses, 1.8 billion Muslims, or – for that matter – hundreds of followers of Timothy. What I am saying is that when the Bible is not sufficient to convince them and the simple math of matching dates to a calendar doesn’t add up for them, then it is going to take a miracle from the Holy Spirit to break through the veil that the “god of this world” has placed over their eyes.

Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.''

Psalm 18:34 He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze

Some Characteristics of a Jezebel Spirit, does TRUMPETCALLOFGOD HAVE ANY?

Within these two main types there are two manifestations: the SEDUCER and the COOL.

The SEDUCER uses any type of seduction available to gain control and power, as a method of manipulation but specialises in spiritual seduction to operate on both males and females. Her seduction usually uses subtle flattery and her seduction is spiritual fornication. Men are particularly blind and easy victims to the subtleties of this seduction, as she flatters them with her attention. Women seduced by the Jezebel are blinded to their own seduction, as they do not expect it, or are not aware of such manipulation.

A good example of the COOL Jezebel personality can frequently be seen as the efficient (and often plain) executive assistant at the side of a powerful businessman or church leader. This Jezebel often lacks a gregarious personality, but may be very outspoken and aggressive.

Some of this spirit’s features:

Deceiver
This spirit works in "private", people outside her circle hardly know her manoeuvring and are an easy pray for manipulation. Those that are possessed by her tend to defend her from any form of criticism. Like many men today defend feminism.

Man-Hater
Jezebel hates men and majors in destroying them. She cannot have a true Godly relationship with men; because her desire is to strip them of all their perceived power and then destroy them, to emasculate them emotionally and spiritually.

Un-submitted
Jezebels revile (despise and show no respect for) authority over her. Building on "dislike of authority" (especially of men since they are frequently the authority figure) coupled with rebellion, she hates anyone placed in authority over her (particularly men), and seeks to destroy them and take their power. Jezebel sees herself as the "goddess on the pedestal".

Power-Hungry
Jezebel is extremely power-hungry, respecting only power stronger than her own. She disdains or considers herself superior to anyone she perceives as having no power, or power less than hers. She works through her conquest to attain power over others.

Intelligent
This spirit from hell is very intelligent and finds very challenging to control and manipulate intellectually able people. She is able to manipulate them so well that actually they worship her.

Hard Worker
Jezebels are frequently "super achievers", which sadly is admired both in the church and business world. She is also a master in hinder others to achieve anything, kind of: doing everything she can to prevent others achieving their set goals for then criticise them for not having achieved these aims.

Self Worship
Internally Jezebel worships herself even though externally she may portray a picture of humility and submission. She is very proud of herself and extremely vain, and in her pride can only talk about herself. They are usually very attractive and they use that to seduce their victims.

Jealous
She cannot suffer other getting attention over herself and she will do all she can to prevent others receiving attention and recognition. If one gets between Jezebel and the person she is trying to control, she'll attack most viciously, trying her best to destroy that relationship with that person. She will try and destroy his reputation, undermine his authority and generally stop at nothing to separate anyone from her intended "victim". Beware!

Manipulator
Jezebel uses other people as objects, where it suits her need, to gain control, influence and power. Once she has gained the control desired, she generally rejects and tosses the people aside. If they are in her family, she does this emotionally.

Queen Bee
Jezebel demands worship from others (the "queen-bee" syndrome). She must have dominance and control in her home. Other family members exist just to please her. Jezebel requires "worship" from her family and followers ... to be their "goddess".

Domineering
The Jezebel is extremely authoritarian ("bossy") by nature, though subtly with the low profile type. She is easily offended if her authority is questioned, and will often respond with extreme anger at even the slightest offence. She demands blind loyalty.

Unrealistic Expectations of Others
Her expectations of others are always unrealistic, because others cannot meet her demand for complete submission. If they do try, she despises them and casts them aside when she has what she wants out of them. Anyone attempting to relate to a person with this spirit is literally in a "no-win situation". Nothing pleases this spirit.

Perfectionist
Perfectionism is a common characteristic of the Jezebel, generating self-hatred in the victim, and a despising of others around her who fail to meet her exaggerated standards. This is part of the "unrealistic expectations" she has toward herself and others, but it is also an excuse for disrespect toward others, especially those in authority since they don't "measure up" so she doesn't have to show respect, of course.

Seduction, Control, Manipulation
Control and manipulation are the strongest parts of the Jezebel nature. These are "spirits of witchcraft" and are extremely dangerous! Nearly everything the Jezebel does utilizes one or both spirits to attain her goal. Jezebel is the ultimate manipulator. The adulterous woman says: "This is the way of an adulteress: she eats and wipes her mouth and says, "I have done no wrong."" (Pro 30:20)

The first step in Jezebel’s work is to control her victim by seduction. She will use flattery, smooth prophetic sayings, pleasant words and seducing tears. She views children in a marriage as tools and weapons to manipulate hubby and family.

She knows how to use deep emotional hurts and wounds to manipulate and control as she creates apparent deep ties with others. Jezebel loves to pull people unto herself and away from those who can truly speak into their lives. Jezebel flows best in a whirlwind of confusion and turmoil, where she works best.

[ Learn More ]

I notice there ws some excuse making by them regarding 2011. Something about calendars. Problem is, the prediction about Jesus coming is in volume one and here is the exact wording. Notice the date it was given (bold mine):

Quote

6/04 From God The Father -
A Letter Given to Timothy, For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
The Harvest, Judgments, and Communion with The Spirit
Oh Timothy, listen as I speak. The time has now come for you to put away your fear, and trample out all things
immoral in you, and become the man I want you to be. For the time draws hence, in seven years I send My Son, to
pluck from the earth all those both dead and still living, who belong to Me... The rest left to fall under My judgment.

It does not mention 2011 it says, in june of 2004 - OUR 2004 - that it will happen in 7 years. It didn't.

False prophet is what one can deduce from this. I am glad I caught this when I was just starting to read his stuff. Saved me a lot of time.

And yes, I signed up to become a member just so I could post this. I wanted to keep it clear and "black and white".