Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
csp
()
Date: May 05, 2008 06:13AM
Quote
rrmoderator
csp:
"Flaming" is not pointing out what you have claimed through previous posts to support your apologies and/or arguments.
Oprah is supposedly a talk-show host, not a televangelist.
Dr. Phil is a Ph.D. psychologist.
Promoting personal religious beliefs through an entertainment talk show format may be what Oprah does now, but that was not the original intent of her program.
Tolle doesn't seem stable or credible, based upon his biographical information.
You have certainly made the case that accepting Tolle is believing in a religious belief system, based upon subjective feelings and emotional needs, rather than anything objective or scientific.
You have also demonstrated, assuming that your professional claims are true, that education and training don't preclude people being taken in by gurus like Tolle.
OK. A shifting definition and application of "flaming". At least I'm prepared.
Oprah's show is a specific web seminar on Mr. Tolle's book and is not on her TV talk-show.
My questions concerning televangelists and Dr. Phil is that they also use mass media to promote their religious and psychological teachings. So it is, if I'm understanding you correctly, OK for them and not for Mr. Tolle.
Mr. Tolle is not promoting a religious belief system. He is a contemporary spiritual teacher. He heads no religious organization based on the teachings nor has any organized followers, such as ... for example, someone like Andrew Cohen.
Education and professional training would, I hope, have no bearing on one's spiritual path. The requirements of the former have nothing to do with the requirements of the latter.
Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 05, 2008 06:27AM
csp:
"Flaming" has one consistent definition, which you have violated a couple times thus far.
Any further violations and you will be banned from this board.
Oprah promotes Tolle through her show and book club.
Someone that is a "spiritual teacher" is promoting a religious belief system.
Tolle is also a self-promoter, selling books, seminars, etc.
He is in the "spiritual teacher" business, not unlike other gurus, e.g. Andrew Cohen.
Many scholars and religious studies, philosophy teachers have academic credentials, e.g. Ph.D., but Tolle has nothing.
"Flaming" has one consistent definition, which you have violated a couple times thus far.
Any further violations and you will be banned from this board.
Oprah promotes Tolle through her show and book club.
Someone that is a "spiritual teacher" is promoting a religious belief system.
Tolle is also a self-promoter, selling books, seminars, etc.
He is in the "spiritual teacher" business, not unlike other gurus, e.g. Andrew Cohen.
Many scholars and religious studies, philosophy teachers have academic credentials, e.g. Ph.D., but Tolle has nothing.
Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
csp
()
Date: May 05, 2008 07:46AM
Quote: Someone that is a "spiritual teacher" is promoting a religious belief system.
Response: Not so. This is a confusion between "spirituality in religion" v. "spirituality as opposed to religion." Adherents of the latter (e.g. Tolle) believe in the existence of many "spiritual paths" and deny any objective truth about the best path to follow. The emphasis is on the importance of finding one's own path to whatever-god-there-is, rather than following a codified system.
Quote: He is in the "spiritual teacher" business, not unlike other gurus, e.g. Andrew Cohen.
Response: Have you looked into the spiritual business of Mr. Cohen? His teachings and organization couldn't be any more different from Mr. Tolle's. Mr. Cohen perfectly fits the cult, guru profile in my opinion. I won't go into detail in this post about his practices, but I'm sure if you are in the anti-cult field then you've run across information about him. I would use Mr. Cohen as an example of exactly what Mr. Tolle isn't.
Quote: Many scholars and religious studies, philosophy teachers have academic credentials, e.g. Ph.D., but Tolle has nothing.
Response: Tolle does not promote himself as a religious scholar or philosophy professor, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Response: Not so. This is a confusion between "spirituality in religion" v. "spirituality as opposed to religion." Adherents of the latter (e.g. Tolle) believe in the existence of many "spiritual paths" and deny any objective truth about the best path to follow. The emphasis is on the importance of finding one's own path to whatever-god-there-is, rather than following a codified system.
Quote: He is in the "spiritual teacher" business, not unlike other gurus, e.g. Andrew Cohen.
Response: Have you looked into the spiritual business of Mr. Cohen? His teachings and organization couldn't be any more different from Mr. Tolle's. Mr. Cohen perfectly fits the cult, guru profile in my opinion. I won't go into detail in this post about his practices, but I'm sure if you are in the anti-cult field then you've run across information about him. I would use Mr. Cohen as an example of exactly what Mr. Tolle isn't.
Quote: Many scholars and religious studies, philosophy teachers have academic credentials, e.g. Ph.D., but Tolle has nothing.
Response: Tolle does not promote himself as a religious scholar or philosophy professor, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Re: Eckhart Tolle, Egomaniac, salesman, and fraud
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: May 05, 2008 08:51AM
Tolle changed his name for MARKETING purposes.
If he wanted to have a "new spiritual name" he could have kept that private.
He can call himself Sri Sri Ramalama DingDong in his bedroom if he wants to.
But he picked a new LINGUISTICALLY LOADED name..."Eckhart" to use as a marketing tool, in his persuasion of those he charges money. Its BRANDING and MARKETING 101.
As far as "stillness", that is a joke. Anyone can act detached and "still" while on-stage, or being driven around in private limos. Then people "project" their fantasies on you. Psych 101.
Tolle is simply the latest in a long long long line of spiritual hucksters, out to get rich.
His product?
HAPPINESS.
That is what he promises people...Peace, Enlightment, which is another word for happiness, and ESCAPE FROM PAIN.
So Tolle is selling the ultimate product.
Just look at this disgusting list of his product EXPLOITATION at Amazon.com
[www.amazon.com]
Tolle is just CASHING IN. Now is his time to rake in the cash.
But sadly, his methods will NOT lead to happiness, rather, they will lead to MORE MISERY for his followers, as they are not psychologically sound or sustainable.
If he wanted to have a "new spiritual name" he could have kept that private.
He can call himself Sri Sri Ramalama DingDong in his bedroom if he wants to.
But he picked a new LINGUISTICALLY LOADED name..."Eckhart" to use as a marketing tool, in his persuasion of those he charges money. Its BRANDING and MARKETING 101.
As far as "stillness", that is a joke. Anyone can act detached and "still" while on-stage, or being driven around in private limos. Then people "project" their fantasies on you. Psych 101.
Tolle is simply the latest in a long long long line of spiritual hucksters, out to get rich.
His product?
HAPPINESS.
That is what he promises people...Peace, Enlightment, which is another word for happiness, and ESCAPE FROM PAIN.
So Tolle is selling the ultimate product.
Just look at this disgusting list of his product EXPLOITATION at Amazon.com
[www.amazon.com]
Tolle is just CASHING IN. Now is his time to rake in the cash.
But sadly, his methods will NOT lead to happiness, rather, they will lead to MORE MISERY for his followers, as they are not psychologically sound or sustainable.
Re: Eckhart Tolle, Egomaniac, salesman, and fraud
Posted by:
csp
()
Date: May 05, 2008 09:26AM
Franklin Albert Jones (Adi Da), Richard Alpert (Ram Dass), Jan Leena (Jan van Rijckenborgh), etc. The reason many of these spiritual teachers change their name is not for marketing purposes, but they see themselves as having two lives: one before their spiritual awakening and one after to which their new name applies.
By "stillness" I mean absolute silence within with no thoughts. This is very rare for more than a few seconds at a time. If you are very sensitive, or have experienced this state of consciousness, you can detect extended levels of silence in others.
Happiness has a number of different definitions. Tolle's teachings, like Buddha's, has more to do with liberation from suffering. An example of this is Tolle's detailed analysis of what he calls the "pain body." The teachings have to do with a neutralization of the "pain body" which is part of the process of eliminating "suffering" (the opposite of pain).
I'd be very interested in information, studies, anecdotal reports, etc. of his methods leading to more misery.
By "stillness" I mean absolute silence within with no thoughts. This is very rare for more than a few seconds at a time. If you are very sensitive, or have experienced this state of consciousness, you can detect extended levels of silence in others.
Happiness has a number of different definitions. Tolle's teachings, like Buddha's, has more to do with liberation from suffering. An example of this is Tolle's detailed analysis of what he calls the "pain body." The teachings have to do with a neutralization of the "pain body" which is part of the process of eliminating "suffering" (the opposite of pain).
I'd be very interested in information, studies, anecdotal reports, etc. of his methods leading to more misery.
WARNING: Eckhart Tolle - Local Silent Groups, cult alert
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: May 05, 2008 02:12PM
another ludicrous thing about Eckhart Tolle, is he, and his people, say that he is not running a New Age religion, or any type of personality cult.
Well, that is factually FALSE on both counts.
Eckhart Tolle is literally running a personality cult around himself and his writings and products, as well as running a highly organized distributed, decentralized type of New Age "church", with his Eckhart Tolle "Groups".
Its actually very similar to Amway and Network Marketing.
Its also similar to the weekly Sai Baba meetings for his followers, and also the weekly home chanting meetings for the SGI cult. [www.culteducation.com]
Eckhart Tolle has local "Group Facilitators",
[eckharttolle.com]
and those people (unpaid worker-bees) are instructed to buy a bunch of Eckhart Tolle intellectual property with their own money, and then invite people to show-up at their house, and SHUT-UP and NOT THINK or TALK, and then WATCH 90 minutes of Eckhart Tolle yacking away at them, and then NOT TALK OR THINK!!
You see how he is doing it? He is persuading people to NOT THINK, to not criticize Tolle's writings and recordings. Just show-up, shut-up, go into a DEEP TRANCE, then get brainwashed for 90 minutes, shut-up some more, take some brochures to buy more Eckhart Tolle products, and go home and dream about Eckhart Tolle in your sleep. (same method as Sai Baba, even down to using Images of the Guru in meditative states...).
Come on, if this isn't New Age cultic brainwashing, then what is?
Its systematic and organized.
And its very smart too. It doesn't cost Tolle 1 cent, he makes money off it, from product sales. So he has free local ET evangelists for him, and he has forbid them from even TALKING to eachother, so this way no one can steal his thunder. Its all about Eckhart Tolle.
You get yourself into a DEEP TRANCE of meditation where you are SUGGESTIBLE, and think about Eckhart Tolle, and you start to get Transference to him,and bonded to him on the deepest level, as the ONLY ONE allowed to talk is Eckhart Tolle on DVD.
(what unbelievable and pathological arrogance Eckhart Tolle displays, it really is cringe-inducing).
Look at all the junk Eckhart Tolle is selling. Its unbelievable he is getting away with it. He has 22 CD's for sale...13 DVD's for sale, cards, music.
Eckhart Tolle is a bigtime Capitalist Entrepreneur, very aggressive in marketing and sales.
[eckharttolle.com]
Notice how it starts with the books, then goes DEEPER and DEEPER and DEEPER into "Intensives and Retreats".
Notice how he lures you in? Starts with a book, then a CD, then a DVD or 10, next thing you are attending weekly meetings, retreats, intensives... then if you go deeper, you become a "facilitator" , and an ET Teacher, and all the rest of it. Thousands of dollar into Tolle's corporate bank account.
Eckhart Tolle seems to have copied some of the methods of the MLM Network Marketing people.
Exact same MLM and modern cultic pattern.
If it walks like a new age cult, and quacks like a new age cult, and organizes and markets and brainwashes with SUGGESTION and HYPNOSIS like a new age cult...then guess what...
Don't go to these obscene Weekly Eckhart Tolle Brainwashing Groups where you are forbidden to speak or think, and just watch propaganda movies of your Thought Leader ET.
Its very simple.
He gets you to put yourself into a deep self-induced hypnotic Trance, where you become highly suggestible.
Then you get brainwashed by Tolle for 90 minutes by DVD.
Then you meditate more to install his suggestions.
Then you are forbidden to speak with your friends, which is going to mess your mind up even more as its so abnormal and antisocial.
Then you are in the grasp of Eckhart Tolle.
This guy is pathetic.
______________________________________________
[eckharttolle.com]
Attending a Silent Local Group
All are welcome to attend a Silent Local Group.
The groups listed follow Eckhart's recommended Silent Group format. The group may begin with ten to twenty minutes of silence (silent meditation), 1 to 1 1/2 hours of an Eckhart Tolle audio or visual recording, ending with ten to twenty minutes of silence (silent meditation). It's best not to engage in discussion, as it tends to stimulate the mind and ego.
Well, that is factually FALSE on both counts.
Eckhart Tolle is literally running a personality cult around himself and his writings and products, as well as running a highly organized distributed, decentralized type of New Age "church", with his Eckhart Tolle "Groups".
Its actually very similar to Amway and Network Marketing.
Its also similar to the weekly Sai Baba meetings for his followers, and also the weekly home chanting meetings for the SGI cult. [www.culteducation.com]
Eckhart Tolle has local "Group Facilitators",
[eckharttolle.com]
and those people (unpaid worker-bees) are instructed to buy a bunch of Eckhart Tolle intellectual property with their own money, and then invite people to show-up at their house, and SHUT-UP and NOT THINK or TALK, and then WATCH 90 minutes of Eckhart Tolle yacking away at them, and then NOT TALK OR THINK!!
You see how he is doing it? He is persuading people to NOT THINK, to not criticize Tolle's writings and recordings. Just show-up, shut-up, go into a DEEP TRANCE, then get brainwashed for 90 minutes, shut-up some more, take some brochures to buy more Eckhart Tolle products, and go home and dream about Eckhart Tolle in your sleep. (same method as Sai Baba, even down to using Images of the Guru in meditative states...).
Come on, if this isn't New Age cultic brainwashing, then what is?
Its systematic and organized.
And its very smart too. It doesn't cost Tolle 1 cent, he makes money off it, from product sales. So he has free local ET evangelists for him, and he has forbid them from even TALKING to eachother, so this way no one can steal his thunder. Its all about Eckhart Tolle.
You get yourself into a DEEP TRANCE of meditation where you are SUGGESTIBLE, and think about Eckhart Tolle, and you start to get Transference to him,and bonded to him on the deepest level, as the ONLY ONE allowed to talk is Eckhart Tolle on DVD.
(what unbelievable and pathological arrogance Eckhart Tolle displays, it really is cringe-inducing).
Look at all the junk Eckhart Tolle is selling. Its unbelievable he is getting away with it. He has 22 CD's for sale...13 DVD's for sale, cards, music.
Eckhart Tolle is a bigtime Capitalist Entrepreneur, very aggressive in marketing and sales.
[eckharttolle.com]
Notice how it starts with the books, then goes DEEPER and DEEPER and DEEPER into "Intensives and Retreats".
Notice how he lures you in? Starts with a book, then a CD, then a DVD or 10, next thing you are attending weekly meetings, retreats, intensives... then if you go deeper, you become a "facilitator" , and an ET Teacher, and all the rest of it. Thousands of dollar into Tolle's corporate bank account.
Eckhart Tolle seems to have copied some of the methods of the MLM Network Marketing people.
Exact same MLM and modern cultic pattern.
If it walks like a new age cult, and quacks like a new age cult, and organizes and markets and brainwashes with SUGGESTION and HYPNOSIS like a new age cult...then guess what...
Don't go to these obscene Weekly Eckhart Tolle Brainwashing Groups where you are forbidden to speak or think, and just watch propaganda movies of your Thought Leader ET.
Its very simple.
He gets you to put yourself into a deep self-induced hypnotic Trance, where you become highly suggestible.
Then you get brainwashed by Tolle for 90 minutes by DVD.
Then you meditate more to install his suggestions.
Then you are forbidden to speak with your friends, which is going to mess your mind up even more as its so abnormal and antisocial.
Then you are in the grasp of Eckhart Tolle.
This guy is pathetic.
______________________________________________
[eckharttolle.com]
Attending a Silent Local Group
All are welcome to attend a Silent Local Group.
The groups listed follow Eckhart's recommended Silent Group format. The group may begin with ten to twenty minutes of silence (silent meditation), 1 to 1 1/2 hours of an Eckhart Tolle audio or visual recording, ending with ten to twenty minutes of silence (silent meditation). It's best not to engage in discussion, as it tends to stimulate the mind and ego.
Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 05, 2008 08:07PM
csp:
"Spirituality" is a religious term.
Your analysis of Tolle is subjective and based upon your feelings.
Apparently, he feeds your emotional needs, so you wish to ignore the facts about him.
You are here as an apologist defending Tolle.
"Franklin Albert Jones (Adi Da)" has changed his name more than once.
Frequently when cult leaders change their names it is to avoid accountability.
Jones is notorious.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Are you a guru-hopper, going from one to another?
Seems like it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2008 08:12PM by rrmoderator.
"Spirituality" is a religious term.
Your analysis of Tolle is subjective and based upon your feelings.
Apparently, he feeds your emotional needs, so you wish to ignore the facts about him.
You are here as an apologist defending Tolle.
"Franklin Albert Jones (Adi Da)" has changed his name more than once.
Frequently when cult leaders change their names it is to avoid accountability.
Jones is notorious.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Are you a guru-hopper, going from one to another?
Seems like it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2008 08:12PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
csp
()
Date: May 05, 2008 08:30PM
Spirituality can be a religious term or be used to define practices in opposition to codified religious beliefs. Tolle's work fits the latter definition.
Tolle does not feed my emotional needs. I'm not a follower of Tolle, but have been a member of a Gnostic Christian organization for more than 15 years. I recognized in his books parts of the Universal Doctrine and a very good explanation of Buddhist "mindfulness" and find it quite extraordinary that he would be grouped with other notorious cult leaders. This my defense of his work.
I know that Mr. Jones is both notorious and has changed his name more than once. He is also another example of what Mr. Tolle is not.
I have never followed a guru. I was raised in the German Reformed Church, studied religion and philosophy both at the University (my undergraduate degree is in Philosophy) and on my own in my twenties, and then joined a Gnostic Christian organization 15 years ago.
Tolle does not feed my emotional needs. I'm not a follower of Tolle, but have been a member of a Gnostic Christian organization for more than 15 years. I recognized in his books parts of the Universal Doctrine and a very good explanation of Buddhist "mindfulness" and find it quite extraordinary that he would be grouped with other notorious cult leaders. This my defense of his work.
I know that Mr. Jones is both notorious and has changed his name more than once. He is also another example of what Mr. Tolle is not.
I have never followed a guru. I was raised in the German Reformed Church, studied religion and philosophy both at the University (my undergraduate degree is in Philosophy) and on my own in my twenties, and then joined a Gnostic Christian organization 15 years ago.
Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 05, 2008 08:42PM
csp:
You have created definitions that fit your needs.
What Tolle preaches is a religious point of view, which is accepted through faith by his followers.
If you are not a follower of Tolle you are strangely obsessed with defending him here.
At best Tolle represents another "New Age" guru that has managed to composite and repackage old beliefs to market for profit.
But if you wish to believe him that's your choice.
You have created definitions that fit your needs.
What Tolle preaches is a religious point of view, which is accepted through faith by his followers.
If you are not a follower of Tolle you are strangely obsessed with defending him here.
At best Tolle represents another "New Age" guru that has managed to composite and repackage old beliefs to market for profit.
But if you wish to believe him that's your choice.
Re: Eckhart Tolle "advaita"
Posted by:
Ludwig
()
Date: May 05, 2008 08:56PM
Quote
rrmoderator
csp:
Dr. Phil is a Ph.D. psychologist.
Dr. Phil has not been licensed to practice psychology anywhere in the U.S. since 1989. Read on....
"The Texas State Board of Examiners of Psychologists imposed disciplinary sanctions on McGraw on January 27, 1989 for an inappropriate "dual relationship" reported in 1988 by a therapy client/employee from 1984. McGraw was ordered by the Board to take an ethics class, pass a jurisprudence exam, complete a physical evaluation, undergo a psychological evaluation and have his practice supervised for one year in order to continue his private practice in Texas. McGraw admits to giving the client a "job" at his office (which is not allowed), but denied carrying on a sexual relationship with the 19-year-old, who says their relationship was "sexually inappropriate." As of 2008, McGraw has not completed the conditions imposed by the Board of Examiners of Psychologists, and he is not licensed to practice psychology in Texas, California, or anywhere else. (Wikipedia)"
Except on television, of course, where none of this embarrassing business matters. In a very real sense McGraw is practicing medicine without a license. He gets away with it only because he doesn't charge his guests a fee.
Quote
rrmoderator
Tolle doesn't seem stable or credible, based upon his biographical information.
Apparently, neither is Dr. Phil.
Quote
rrmoderator
You have certainly made the case that accepting Tolle is believing in a religious belief system, based upon subjective feelings and emotional needs, rather than anything objective or scientific.
In logic, that's called "begging the question". Can you name a single religious belief system that is based on "anything objective or scientific"?
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