By "scientist" I am referring to both my position as a Director of Research for a large health care company .. and that my studies have been published in peer reviewed scientific journals. My books are also sold via a science publisher.

As for flaming ... I don't recall personally attacking anyone in the forum, but if I did I apologize.

But back to the topic ...

Two more points.

I have forgotten to mention regarding Mr. Tolle is that he always refers to "the" teaching vs. "my" teaching. I think this is extremely important in refuting the claims by some that he is seeking a public ego limelight. Essentially, he is taking little to no credit for his material.

As for his "uncheckable" background ... it is not known whether or not he graduated from the University of London. They won't comment. He did attend Cambridge University in the doctoral program. No small feat. The reason Tolle will not comment more about his life is that it would contradict "the" teaching. He has repeatedly emphasized that we are not our story. So ... giving too much detail or emphasis about his life would be hypocritical of what he has written and stated. He is "walking the walk" in every way possible.

csp:

Please just state your education and professional qualifications.

You go around and around this point without being specific.

Are you a medical doctor, a Ph.d. or what?

If you wish to claim some sort of expertise please back it up.

Regarding Tolle, it seems just a little bit too easy to use "the teaching" as an excuse for him not citing his academic credentials precisely, i.e. what degrees if any he has.

Apparently he only attended and never received a degree.

As for his ego, well he is working with Oprah and marketing himself through national television as some sort of pop guru.

And if Tolle wanted to appear modest, perhaps he should not have made a point about his high marks and name dropping whatever universities he attended.

"Walking the walk" indeed.

Maybe Tolle should get his "story" straight.

Quote
csp
By "scientist" I am referring to both my position as a Director of Research for a large health care company .. and that my studies have been published in peer reviewed scientific journals. My books are also sold via a science publisher.

As for flaming ... I don't recall personally attacking anyone in the forum, but if I did I apologize.

But back to the topic ...

Two more points.

I have forgotten to mention regarding Mr. Tolle is that he always refers to "the" teaching vs. "my" teaching. I think this is extremely important in refuting the claims by some that he is seeking a public ego limelight. Essentially, he is taking little to no credit for his material.

As for his "uncheckable" background ... it is not known whether or not he graduated from the University of London. They won't comment. He did attend Cambridge University in the doctoral program. No small feat. The reason Tolle will not comment more about his life is that it would contradict "the" teaching. He has repeatedly emphasized that we are not our story. So ... giving too much detail or emphasis about his life would be hypocritical of what he has written and stated. He is "walking the walk" in every way possible.

"the" teaching is rather generic and displaces liability. One can assume responsiblity for being THE teacher as it certainly expands his credit rating. More comments to follow regarding my quote from John S. Saloma, as well as the dangers of the "idolatry" of science. I will also be making reference to a story Tolle reveals on his Findhorn CD regarding Byron Katie as I was waiting to introduce her into this as well without being diversionary. I don't have time to comment further at the moment.

Regarding religion or meditation, it makes no difference whether a practitioner is a scientist, a mental health professional or an employee at a temp agency.

A practitioner's social class, titles, or occupation should be irrelevant if he or she claims to have benefitted from a teaching that is supposed to transcend ego.

For it is ego that is concerned with social class, titles, and prestige.

It is worth noting that most ordinary folks would find it quite difficult to re-enter the job market and get employement if they have been out of the job market for a decade or more.

A person in such a predicament would have to do re-entry classes, and get advice from a job counselor on how to deal with years long gap in work history if they cant say they were out of work due to raising a family, etc.

And they would probably have to start in quite humble jobs, prove themselves as reliable, and from there, work their way up.

Only on the New Age circuit can one have a year's long employment gap in one's resume and not be searchingly questioned about it, as an ordinary job seeker would be.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2008 12:32AM by corboy.

Quote
corboy
Regarding religion or meditation, it makes no difference whether a practitioner is a scientist, a mental health professional or an employee at a temp agency.

A practitioner's social class, titles, or occupation should be irrelevant if he or she claims to have benefitted from a teaching that is supposed to transcend ego.

For it is ego that is concerned with social class, titles, and prestige.

It is worth noting that most ordinary folks would find it quite difficult to re-enter the job market and get employement if they have been out of the job market for a decade or more.

A person in such a predicament would have to do re-entry classes, and get advice from a job counselor on how to deal with years long gap in work history if they cant say they were out of work due to raising a family, etc.

And they would probably have to start in quite humble jobs, prove themselves as reliable, and from there, work their way up.

Only on the New Age circuit can one have a year's long employment gap in one's resume and not be searchingly questioned about it, as an ordinary job seeker would be.

are you saying unemployment is a form of "self realization" or ego diminishment? or, re-entering the job market as a form of enlightenment due to its "humility" and seeking the advice of those more advanced so as to re-establish their footing which in turn leads to a stronger sense of self and a potentially stronger ego?

Your first example involved a 10 year lapse in employment. The second example involved a 1 year lapse.

Earlier I mentioned a story Tolle tells on his Findhorn CD involving another "new age guru" known as Byron Katie.
He speaks of Byron (a woman) visiting a woman in the hospital. This woman had an advanced cancer and Byron says, "problem? I don't see a problem here!" the bed-ridden woman says, "NO problem!?!? I'LL SHOW YOU A PROBLEM!!" Tolle then says that the woman lifted her bedsheets to reveal that one leg was about twice the size of the other. Byron says, "oh...you think that both legs are supposed to be the same size?" Tolle then says that the women laughed hysterically for probably the first time in a long time.

WHAT KIND OF INHUMANITY IS THIS passing itself off as enlightened counselling!?!?!? WHY, WHY would Tolle repeat this!?!? Obviously my repulsion towards Byron Katie's "advice" is personal as his audience chuckled along with him.

The human mind that Tolle referred to as not being capable of "grasping very much" is certainly validated with that preceeding example; HIS!! Something indeed greater than the mind in its complexity has decreed a symmetry and balance that is encoded within the DNA that cannot be scoffed at with a trivial "oh! you think that both legs should be the same size!" Cannot Tolle SEE how foolish this sounds!?!?! This was one of first glimpses into inhumanity passing itslef off as "enlightened" indifference. OR? are you just reading the words of a poor, wounded, "ego" here, with its "story" and its dissatisfactions as to how "I" think the world should look? Of course, cancers are happening NOW, and a leg that has increased twice its size IS a problem. But to Byron Katie, it's just another name for joy.

That there are moments when acceptance is really the only option, then, of course "submitting" to the mystery of cancer may be your only viable option. But do NOT deny this lady her "story", her personal mythology, or whatever you wish to call it. Tolle spends ALOT of time trying to diminish other people's "stories", the fictions of the "little me". In doing so,he's invoking dualism into his theories and causing further splits. Either those stories are a manifestation of what IS, the divine "suchness" of what is or they're not. Of course, that cancer is a manifestation of the "divine" is probably what led Byron Katie to see "no problem".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2008 03:21AM by Hugh Manatee.

corboy posted, "For it is ego that is concerned with social class, titles, and prestige."

Again, I hear Stalin (or any other promoter of a coercive utopia) echoing the Tao, as in; "you, oh humble worker, servant, slave, should not concern yourself with prestige, titles, and social class. you're lightening our load with your humility, therefore leave the prestige, dachas, and fine food to us. BACK TO WORK!!"

IS Oprah Winfrey the best vehicle for transmitting the values of diminshed social class and entitlement?

What is amusing about Tolle is he seems to attract 2 types of followers...the New Agers who are anti-intellectual, usually due to unpleasant school experiences.

But he also seems to attract highly educated folks too, who he can lure in with with his Tolle Linguistic Mind-Games and name-dropping.

So it appears that Tolle flunked out of some academic schools.
So why is he hiding it? Why is his story so messed up?
Did he drop out due to mental illness? If so, why not admit it? It happens to people.
Or did he fabricate aspects of his past?

Did Eckhart Tolle live on welfare for a few years, and sit on park benches reading new age philosophy books?
What's the deal?
Hopefully, some reporters will find out what REALLY went on with him.

As far as mental illness, Tolle does claim his methods can cure mental illness in his books.
But the facts are that those with mental illness can go completely overboard with this stuff, and start believing they have No Self, and just fall off the rails of reality.
That stuff is happening everyday as we speak with people following Tolle's books.
There are even suicidal posts here and there from disturbed people.

Eckhart Tolle doesn't care. Let them eat cake, I guess. Tolle is happy in his luxury condo and estate.

The reality is people with mental illness need to see a professional, and get help. They often need MORE EGO-STRENGTH TO LEARN TO COPE.
That is very basic. Get it Tolle...they need MORE SELF-EFFICACY to cope with life.

But Tolle doesn't care about the facts of reality.
He just wants to sell his books and tapes, and play-act that he is an Enlightened Guru to millions.

This is why Eckhart Tolle is a fraud.
Because he claims he isn't a fraud.
If he were REALLY enlightened, he would NOT be doing what he is doing now, with such extreme arrogance.
His hatred against intellectualism probably comes from his getting flunked-out of some courses at university.
The irony is he uses the intellect to do battle with his own personal demons, and projects them on the world.

Eckhart Tolle is a fraud.
If he were not a fraud, he would be more humble, less arrogant, and not pretend he has the answer to everything.
He would admit he is selling a belief system for money.
He would lower his prices.

But he is robotic. No sense of humor. No normal human feelings.
He appears "schizoidal".
That ain't enlightenment folks.

So due to Oprah, Eckhart Tolle ET is the fad of the month, like the Celestine Prophecy. He will make his 10 million bucks due to Oprah, and then just continue to live the sweet life of a New Age Guru for the rest of his life.

His #1 trait that betrays him is his ARROGANCE. Man, the guy really thinks he knows-it-all. He is like some kid in junior school who read the encyclopedia, and then acts like he knows everything.
Meanwhile, Tolle is smart, but not THAT smart. His books are full of errors, and inconsistencies.
If he entered his ideas into ANY university PhD level program, they would be completely taken apart literally in 5 minutes.
Which is probably what happened.
He probably tried to do this stuff in an academic environment, wrote up some big Eckhart Tolle Manifesto, and got clobbered as it was so poorly done, so he flipped out, dropped out, changed his names, and then went into the New Age where you can says ANYTHING without proof or logic, and then uses this area to attack the intellectual establishment.

If someone could find his real name, maybe they could find some goofy Thesis Manifesto of Grandeur he wrote that got hammered. That probably triggered his downfall, and turned him against society.
L Ron Hubbard of Scientology was the same way, he was all for the mental health field, until they ATTACKED HIS WRITINGS, then they became the devil.

Maybe one day an early thesis of Tolle's will turn up...in which Eckhart Tolle, or whatever his real name was...was the SAVIOR OF HUMANITY and THE WORLD.
Yes, we need more World Saviors...thousands are not enough...


PS: notice how virutally every new age guru like "Eckhart Tolle" has a FAKE NAME, and a string of aliases? Why is that? So they are untraceable, or harder to trace.
Just like con-artists who end up with a string of dozens of names, or like Werner Erhard, or Byron Katie...they keep changing their names, and modifying them.

Hopefully some journalists will get off their butts and stop drinking coffee all day and dig up the dirt on this Eckhart Tolle!!! The guy is big news now, so the story would be worth it.
Maybe the Brits will be able to find out the real "story" on ET.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2008 02:47PM by The Anticult.

Eckhart Tolle's was born Ulrich Tolle in 1948 in Germany. He changed his first name to Eckhart after the German mystic Meister Eckhart. No string of aliases.

Tolle doesn't talk about his past in detail because he doesn't want people to identify the "teaching" with his personal "story."

csp:

Are you serious?

Your apology for Tolle avoiding his past is not believable.

Adopting the name of a "German mystic"?

His "story" may remind many of other self-styled gurus that have also changed their names, e.g. Werner Erhard, Justin Sterling, etc.

Tolle's bio makes him seem flaky and not very credible.

"An integrative paradigm assumes and requires the development of a metalanguage that relates and makes possible communication between religious or mystical and scientific world-views. The importance of this task should not be underestimated. We need a twentieth-century translation of dated and emotionally loaded terms appropriate to a contemporary understanding of "spiritual" and "psychic" (nonobjective) aspects of reality. A powerful and effective metalanguage,however, must define some necessary connection between spirit and matter and also indicate their hierarchical interdependence."
-John S. Saloma, The Theory of Process 1 Prelude:Search for a Paradigm; p.12

In The Power of Now, Tolle quotes Jesus, "find the narrow gate that leads to life" he says. the actual quote is, "enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it."
-Matthew 7:13

obviously Tolle is not the first to cite the Bible for his own purpose. Fundamentalists, of course, use this quote to exclude all others who do not adhere to their interpretation. Tolle says that the narrow gate is of course, THE NOW. Yet, I had a minor epiphany regarding the "narrow gate." Tolle's "narrow" gate of NOW is present on Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. As far as we know, only the Earth is the narrow gate supporting life. In actuality, THE NOW is broad and wide reaching out into the unfathomable depths of the universe. Could the narrow gate perhaps be the narrow bandwidth of temperature that allows for the chemical bonds that support life to occur? The BROAD and WIDE bandwidth of absolute zero and the temperature of the sun is quite large, and yes, it's happening NOW. Jesus as a prophet of science? I don't know.