Hi. This is more or less a response chiefly to the postings by mxkitty. I found all the stuff here very interesting I have to say.
Mxkitty: you were perfectly reasonable and I was interested in what you were saying until you brought in the New World Order stuff; I'm pretty acquainted with it and I can see where this is going...
Firstly- back up the idea that Subud is connected to the NWO. This a massive distraction from the actual authentic criticism and dialogue taking place here; personally, I don't mind criticism of Subud, and certainly not from ex-members like Jupiter, but I do mind - forgive me for saying this- instant associations being made with something I am familiar with that are so clearly, to me, untrue. The NWO conspiracy theories, if there is truth in them, and I have met people who are very eloquent who believe in these ideas, have become so overused and often misapplied or re-modelled and re-processed through all the filters under the sun, that the subject has been tainted by abuse to the point of cliche. I'm sorry- wheres your evidence for your implication in the post concerning this?
The YouTube link showing Bapak in The Hague is there because its poster, Michael Rogge, who is Dutch, filmed him when he visited his own country. The links to the Bilderberg group and Queen Beatrix etc. and Subud come from where? They're in the same city or country. Queen Beatrix has nothing to do with Subud...
You're making an awfully weak point, and it evinces a desire to look for things that are already in the circulation of other similar-minded sites and liberally impress that onto something else. Subud is not secretive, and hardly highly organised: I speak from experience.
The YouTube film shows a visit by Bapak to other Subud members held in a Freemason hall which was rented for the occasion but that is because it was used to host the event, Subud is not a branch of Freemasonry nor does it share its Philosophy or literally anything at all notionally or otherwise with Freemasonry. Subud and freemasonry have literally nothing to do with each other; the only thing that comes to mind is that there might be a very small amount of membership overlap, although that might be considered "mixing" in some Subud circles.
Anyway, it is interesting for me to read things written here by people not in Subud who obviously are intelligent, but seem tempted to make connections where I know for a fact (unless I have been much-deceived) there are none; and because I know a lot of the NWO ideas floating around I can spot the nearly breathless linkage trying to be asembled. The Hague and its connections to the East India Trading Company, to Bilderberg etc., Illuminati bloodlines...
Now that does not mean that Subud is above / resists being criticized. Criticism, feedback et al are extremely important. I feel, like Bronte, quite a lot of anger drawn from my experiences with some of my subud "brothers and sisters", but that it is due to personality clashes which are common and occur everywhere. There has been some crystallisation of quote/unquote Subud thinking that the earlier members were drawn towards based on the things Bapak said, but a lot of that has been "processed-out", mainly because of the complaints of those who saw it for what it was. There is little organization and a dwindling, but usually very committed membership who represent the plurality and hues of humanity: Jews, Muslims, Christians, sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus. They don't all get on, everybody has different ideas etc., there are certainly some very charismatic types- no doubt the Sonoma group are of this ilk- who really adulterate a lot of stuff with Subud "ideas", and produe their own form of theology, if you will. These people are hardly the average Subud member, and if they are behaving like that- then yes, they are absolutely to be criticised.
It would not be unfair to say that they are unconsciously or not hijacking Subud and making it become a travestial cult version of what it was intended to be by Bapak, the founder (not "inventor", which is an interesting slant) of Subud.
I would second Bronte in recommending having a look at subudvision.org, because it will give you a real insight-its not a propaganda site, and I cannot think of a single Subud site of that sort- into what actually goes on in Subud- there is no silencing of dissenting voices or any other classic cultic cariacatures to be found here. Its pretty healthy stuff.
May I proffer a link or two to add to what I have said:
This is a chart that shows the results of a survey within Subud that you can refer to if you like for future; it looks to me to be a pretty accurate reading of attitudes within the movement. Note: the two Questions and their results, near the bottom of the page: "How would you classify Subud", and "How do you think those outside of Subud perceive it?"
This is one of my posts on Subudvision. I mention the Constantine article. Please read the responses if you have time.