George Geftakys
Posted by: terry huffman ()
Date: October 26, 2002 05:38AM

An example....When I left the assembly the first time I departed already depressed, and basically an agnostic, which lasted for a time. When faith returned ( in Christ ) I sought out a leader and told him I wd. like to start attending meetings again. He seemed reasonable enough, but the thrust of repentence seemed to be to get right with the brethren. He mentioned that everyone who leaves usually speak against the brothers, so.... I thought about it and replied that I don't recall having said anything untrue about anyone- including the leaders there. I did confess sins and faults in order to humble myself and have someone pray with and for me. A short while later I was approached by a third party (ano member) and he referred to a comment made to him by the same leader about me that I shd. have been at the last meeting to hear the message, because it applied to me. Then this bro. told me the subject. What I told this leader in confidence he revealed!.

George Geftakys
Posted by: terry huffman ()
Date: October 26, 2002 06:23AM

When I approached this leader shortly afterwards, he stated that for him to make such a comment wd. mean he wasn't applying the ministry to himself! "Uh Huh. Well, did you do that?" I asked. " I don't remember," was his only reply. I expect this kind of doubletalk from politicians, not from "spiritual leaders". He was guilty - I cd. tell by the look on his face - but wd. not admit that he had done wrong. He was later promoted to CA. Believe me, I was outraged and hurt! Forgiveness, though hard sometimes, is a balm that can be applied in cases of spiritual abuse. It doesn't undo the wrong that has been done, neither does it trivialize what has been suffered; and it can substantially help keep one from long-term debilitation. It is also not necessary to keep giving people or groups like this second chances, either. One person who left once told me that it is a public service to warn others about abusive groups. The truth does need to go out to prevent more abuse. Some of these leaders, including GG are wolves.

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: October 26, 2002 07:04AM

Hi Joe and others,
Yes, it is so easy to see now that we are out from under the spell of George's barrage of out of context scripture. It would do good to have an article on Assembly/cult erroneous use of the Bible. Maybe on the new website?
Assembly use of the word "faith" vs. biblical usage:
The Bible has one understanding of the word faith in regard to salvation and that is the reception of God's freely given gift in it's fulness. George teaches beginning faith, which corresponds to the Bible, and then "another" faith that leads to a holy life. This "another" faith is to make practical the salvation that the first faith only opens the door to the possibility of.
Now George claims this second faith is also only a reception of what God has made available in Christ, but it must be taken hold of by the believer. Succesful faith will attain to practical daily holiness to the point where sin can be overcome. This seems like a worthy goal and very logical to the Christian who hungers to be like Jesus, but it leads to a path of hypocrisy or despair. The reason that only failure can follow is that it depends upon the believer to actualize their own "faith". When any part of our salvation, be it justification or sanctification, becomes dependent on our ability to implement our faith our faith becomes a work instead of a reception of a gift. (biblical faith=God's work alone)
George's second faith becomes quite a trick to implement and certain phrases are used to describe the action of the "saint" who attempts to "enter in"; such as "reckon" , "lay hold", " let go let God", "surrender", "absolutely surrender", and etc. Some of these are biblical phrases but they are twisted into a human effort to merit a salvation that can only be received. (more on this in the next post)
Galatians 3 says all of our salvation right up to perfection is achieved by the "hearing" of faith. The ear is an extremely passive body part as all it can do is receive and is incapable of doing something; like say a hand which could lay hold on something. Paul emphasizes the totally receptive nature of faith as the only proper sense that faith is to be used in regard to salvation.
Next: The consequences of Assembly teaching of holiness in the emotional/spiritual well being of a member. (hint-- it ain't good)
God Bless, Mark

George Geftakys
Posted by: joe sperling ()
Date: October 29, 2002 03:44AM

When I remember the Assembly I liken them to a very
short story that happened in the book of Luke. The Assembly was so concerned with filling up time with "meetings" and "stewardships" and "all nights of prayer" and "service" in general. At least when I was a member there a feeling of guilt would fall upon you if you missed one of these meetings. You had failed to "serve the Lord" with your time. So much time was spent attending these meetings, and "doing service" that life would become a blur. In the book of Luke is this short group of verses that to me defines the Assembly vs. a church filled with true grace: "But Martha was cumbered about MUCH SERVING and came to Jesus and said 'Lord,Dost thou not care that my sister has left me to SERVE alone? Bid her therefore that she help me'.
And the Lord said "Martha, Martha, thou art careful abd troubled about MANY THINGS: but ONE THING IS NEEDFUL: and Mary has chosen that good part which SHALL NOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM HER".(Luke 10:40-42). Martha was relying on herself to get things done, while Mary was relying on Jesus alone. It reminds me of another blessed verse: "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but OF GOD that sheweth mercy"(Romans 9). Take care all. --Joe

George Geftakys
Posted by: david mauldin ()
Date: October 29, 2002 05:24AM

Hi, I was in fullerton the other day when I remembered this event. I think its pretty funny.-Life in the assembly was full of "doublespeak" (Being told one thing when it really meant something else.) Living in the brothers house we were told that no sisters were ever aloud over. When we asked, "why?" the canned answer was always, "We need to be a good testimony to the neighbors..." What it really meant was "We don't trust you enough to controle your sexual behaviors!" Subsiquently we (6-8) young college age men did everything together. Shopping, cleaning, yard work etc.. One evening a few of us decided to go to a resturant. It was here that I was surprised to find someone had bought me a drink. When I looked up I noticed a man who lived in our neighborhood staring at me!!!!

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: October 29, 2002 12:46PM

Hi Joe, David, and others,
Very good examples from the Bible re. Assembly behavior Joe and very funny story re. brothers "living together", David.
Assembly Holiness cont.: I have been discussing how Assembly teaching divides the Christian faith into two parts: The 1st faith gains justification, which only allows the opportunity for full salvation, but not the certainty for full salvation(indeed a Christian can lose out on basically everything promised in salvation under George's teaching).
The 2nd faith is for sanctification, or practical holiness. Under George's teaching you must "lay hold" on sanctification (holiness), via your own effort to have hope of heaven, the inheritance, a ressurection body, right to be raptured, participation in the Bride of Christ, and etc.
George teaches that scripture like,"reckon yourselves dead to sin"(Rom.6) and other directives in the Bible that urge we take actions by faith support his position that if Christians fail to do so their lives will end in great loss. The Bible teaches us that no single verse is to be interpreted without considering the context of scripture. When we read Rom. chaps. 6,7,8 together we can begin to understand what Paul is getting at re. the Christian life.
Sanctification occurs practically as a result of us taking our justification seriously. Only the Holy Spirit has the power to make us holy because even as born again believers, apart from the Spirit, it is impossible to live a holy life. Here George's teaching creates a major road block, as he teaches, if we sin we chase away the Spirit of God and so must struggle to cleanse ourselves of impurity in order to "lay hold" of God's provision of the Spirit. Rom. 7 teaches that we are under the power of sin, even as Christians, and "wretched men" apart from the power of Christ.
We must be honest with who we are and yet know(as sinful as we may be) we are completely secure in his love and grace. George strips us of that security when we most need it and puts us into the dangerous position of earning God's grace(oxymoron).
We can't go into a vs. by vs. study here, but the basic principle is that at initial salv. we have all of Christ and all of the promises of God in him(We are complete in Him). When we bring any other condition we cut ourselves off from life in the Spirit and set up a very harmful spiritual and psychological condition in our lives.
(next a look at the harm and then the healing) God Bless, Mark

George Geftakys
Posted by: david mauldin ()
Date: October 30, 2002 01:44AM

Hi Mark, Your work on "Assembly Holliness" is right on. I would like to add that these doctrines work in cadence with the abuse which perpetuates the dysfunction. When I first entered the assembly and started a "serious walk" with the Lord these doctrines filled me with the euphoria that I was "special" before God. Yet as the years went on ( 15 ) I realized that "Holliness" was elusive. Despite the fact that I was totally involved Life together-allnight of prayer, outreaches- etc... I was honestly aware of the sin that still reigned in my heart. What a dissillusion! The "worldly" church couln't live up to their standards and we sat in judgment over them, yet could we? No way! iI saw many things going on in the homes I lived in. Apart from the tremendous verbal psychological abuse I saw a brother daily inflict on his wife I saw two brothers go at each other with fist flying, I know of another exercised brother who drank and looked at porno while his wife wondered where he was at 2 a.m. Yet all this goes on and we put on our best clothes and our best appearences and attend the meetings with great piety. We were greatly pretentious about who we really were or we were defeated by the knowledge of our sin. Getting to know the leadership as I did opened my eyes to the fact that they were no different than anyone else. Mabey worse?

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: October 30, 2002 02:02AM

Hi Everyone,
Assembly False Holiness teaching drives a wedge between God and the believer by making the relationship conditioned on actions a human is not capable of performing. Merit relationship to God vs. gift based relationship creates a harmful dynamic in the soul. Either an Assembly member must fake their spirituality or admit they are failing; the first will garner reward from the Assembly leadership and the second response will bring despair to the member. The hypocritical member will feed their own pride and become hardened toward the weak in their midst. The weak will just become weaker and starved for the acceptance they can't find from the leaders they idolize.
Assembly teaching drives the weak member to constantly look within; as the weak member is told they are failing to "overcome" because of their own defective person. This looking within is the opposite of what grace accomplishes which is a looking to the needs of others(love).
Those whose faith is not the toxic variety the Assembly teaches find their life constantly consoled in the knowledge that they have an abiding loving presence of God, regardless of the weakness they find in their own hearts. This security causes the springs of living water within to flow out to others. The love of God not only heals the needy heart this love will reach out to heal others. The New Test. teaches that true holiness produces love in the church. We can see by examination of Assembly practice that love is not the result and from this alone know that Assembly holiness teaching is not correct.
We know that depression, lost faith, and suicide come from the Assembly message of holiness to the weak, but what of the damage to the leaders who end up dominating the lives of the "saints"? They seem to sail on until some "big blow-up" hits their lives and then they will try to cover it up, explain it away, or just outright deny it. It is our job to blow the whistle on these false shepherds and to help those inside find grace and healing. I welcome responses to my little series.
God Bless, Mark

George Geftakys
Posted by: david mauldin ()
Date: October 30, 2002 03:50AM

Hi Mark In response to your challenge, I have had numerous run -ins with "Saints" almost on a monthly basis. (I live in Fullerton)Some people view me with contempt, suspicion and refuse to talk with me. Others are unable to get past my questions as it always comes back to "My issues with the brothers" Recently I've run into sisters who strike me as almost adolecent/girlish and who are not in the slightest way concerned about "rumors" They seem more concerened with "maintaining their Joy" then thinking. To me it seems that the "saints" are not even concerned with truth. The system works for them, why change it??? I would like to suggets that somewhere inbetween the search for truth/love we joined the assembly in full view of what was going on. We saw the abuse we chose or were guided into ignoring it. To leave the assembly can be a devestating experience. One has to face the realities he/she has been hiding from. This meens admiting to yourself that you are such a needy individual that you opted for such a relationship. When I see "bretheren" today, at times it is very painful, many of them are very week wounded hurting individuals. That is why they are there.

George Geftakys
Posted by: ex-Geftakys ()
Date: October 30, 2002 06:48AM

Hi everyone

I am back. I was unable to get on the web for a long time due to trouble with my new DSL, which is now connected.

Mark...I love your posts. Please don't get weary, save these thoughts to your hard drive, because I want you to share some of this on the new site.

RE the website:

It is up and running, in a very rudimentary way at present. You can get a copy of the brochure that I wrote at there request of some local pastors, and you can get a copy of my book.

soon, everything ever written about the Assembly will be on there, as well as a bulletin board exactly like this one. We will still link to this board, as well as some other sites.

There are going to be some surprises as well. you will definitely want to check things out over the next few weeks.

The overall tone is going to be GRACE, God willing.

Talk to you all later.


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