George Geftakys
Posted by: joe sperling ()
Date: November 14, 2002 03:32AM

Mark---

It's interesting you mention Bob Campbell open air preaching in front of a family gathering. I remember one night a group of about 8 of us or so went to The "Bear Pit"(a local barbecue place) and once we were inside, Al, in an act of "boldness" insisted we sing a hymn at our table. I will not lie when I admit that I was extremely embarrassed by this, feeling it was inappropriate for the setting. We walk in and disrupt the whole restaurant so that Al can feel "bold". He then went into a 10 minute "word of thanksgiving" for the food. I was later chastised by Al for being embarrassed. When I look back I see how far this was from being a "testimony"--it left the people around us looking at us like we were a cult of some kind--a group of weirdos who feel the need to sing or pray loudly to be "noticed". I remember many times going with brothers to a restaurant where someone felt the "need" to give a 10 minute prayer over the food. The waitresses would be standing waiting to place the food on the table while the brother went on about "And help the sisters drive home safely this fine evening and avoid any traffic snarls this evening--may their time in the car be a blessed one and accident free.... and so on and so on. They would be very rude to the waitresses and demanding and then leave a small tip--and then think that they had been a "testimony" in the restaurant. I was very embarrassed at those times also. I'd think--"Man, just give thanks for the food, be courteous and leave a nice tip and they will associate THAT with Chrsitianity, not long-winded prayers and demands. --Joe

George Geftakys
Posted by: david mauldin ()
Date: November 14, 2002 03:48AM

I'm a little confused when I look at the "views" on this site. Is this the Jerry Lewis telethon?

George Geftakys
Posted by: joe sperling ()
Date: November 14, 2002 04:43AM

David---

I'm sorry if you're referring to my posts as resembling the "Jerry Lewis telethon". Most of what I post is different as I'm relating things that happened to "me" more than writing an expository research on the Assembly. I know a lot of it sounds "silly"--but that's because it was "silly" to say the least. Why would one want to enter a restaurant, sing loudly, and draw attention to oneself and call it a "testimony"? It springs from a "need" to feel worthy, which came from a teaching that you can earn points with God by your actions. It reflects the "Assembly Holiness" that Mark has mentioned several times. The brother Mark mentions, who felt the "need" to preach to a family gathering in a loud voice was praised later for his action, while what he really did was make a fool of himself and make a bad "testimony". So, if you mean the "Jerry Lewis telethon"--yeah, it could be, because we were all taught by "The Nutty Professor". --Joe

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: November 14, 2002 05:58AM

Hi Joe,
I must correct you on the name of the open air preacher, as I or a relative of mine, do not wish to be implicated in the before mentioned crime re. public speaking; my last name is Campbell, his was Anderson.
Also Joe, I would like to let you know that I am in regular contact with Al. I'm sure he would be very apologetic for the past misery he put you through. I got to see him a few months back as one of his daughters lives here in Fallbrook. He is completely different now. The Assembly experience was a crushing one for him and it has been a long trip back to health for him. I'm not sure where his faith is at present, but I believe God will not break the bruised reed and will help him back. He now lives in Ohio where he grew up. I think all of his children are Christians and I know that at least 2 seem to be very strong in their faith.
I mentioned some funny stories from the old bros. house and I don't think he wants to be reminded of those days. I think that goes to show that the price paid for being the abuser is sometimes higher than the one paid by the abused. It may not be obvious at the time, but having to do things that violate the conscience end up being internalized. I'm not a psychologist, but just an observer of what has and is happening in the Assembly. (BTW the Bear Pit has great BBQ!)
God Bless, Mark :)

George Geftakys
Posted by: terry huffman ()
Date: November 14, 2002 06:16AM

Greetings Mark and everyone else:
Thanks for the clarification. I really don't think that we are that far apart on the subject. I do believe the Scriptures contain propositional truth. In the assembly frequently it was "what the Lord spoke to me," etc. It's more important first to find out the burden of the writer rather than "what spoke to me." Some of the authors I read weren't the doctrinaire here's- how-you-do-it type, but people like St. Francis of Assisi, Bro. Lawrence, Hudson Taylor(Union and Communion) and others. A favorite quote from Francis(he was no lazybones and was most Christ-like):

Preach the Gospel
And if necessary
Use words

Terry

George Geftakys
Posted by: joe sperling ()
Date: November 14, 2002 06:44AM

Mark---

Sorry---didn't mean to put Campbell as a last name. Give Al
my best. I really shouldn't use names because we were all in the same boat, and all have learned through time. Terry---your words from St. Francis of Assisi say it all. I will now join the crowd of "lurkers" and just observe from now on.

Take care all, Joe

George Geftakys
Posted by: ex-Geftakys ()
Date: November 14, 2002 06:55AM

Hello Everyone

Dan Smith moved to Vancouver, and then moved home, to be with the Lord.

I am in contact with a brother in the Midwest who knew him well. He claims that Dan was run out of the Springfield Assembly by George. (Imagine that)

My friend from the Midwest may be lurking here as well, and if he is, he may want to say something about Dan...since I didn't know him, I don't have much to say.

We, at geftakysassembly.com, will be posting some of Steve Iron's articles soon.

Sorry I can't spend as much time on the bulletin board as I would like, I am busy with other things.

Will you gentlemen be interested in using the bulletin board on the new Website? It is the same as this one, but will only have "saints." It will be interesting to see how many views we have there. BTW, I think this is what David meant by "Jerry Lewis Telethon," that were so many people "calling in."

Brent

George Geftakys
Posted by: david mauldin ()
Date: November 14, 2002 07:47AM

Thank for clarifying what I meant by the Jerry Lewis telethon, if you have ever watched the telethon every time you look up at the tally board the numbers keep getting higher and higher at a pretty fast rate. Maby this one is better. A taxi cab driver and a minister both arived at the gates of heaven at the same time. The attendant at the gate questioned them both as to their occupations while on earth and looked up some records. Afterwords he directed the taxi cab driver to a very large inheritance. Then he directed the minister to a very much smaller inheritance. "Hey" what's up with this" protested the minister. "Well" said the attendant, "Up here we go on results" "While you preached people slept," "while he drove people prayed!"
(I take no doctrinal responsibility for this joke)

George Geftakys
Posted by: ex-Geftakys ()
Date: November 14, 2002 10:28AM

Joe!

We hardly knew ya! What do you want to become a lurker for? Don't fade away into outer darkness, keep on posting, you are one of the stars here!

Seriously, I think it is important to use names, as long as we tell the truth, and don't bring up settled issues. Unsettled issues? Now that's another matter, they need to be brought up.

The Assembly is into keeping silent, I think we should feel free to talk about these things. No one is offended here...right?

Just because St. Francis said, "if necessary, use words, doesn't mean that words shouldn't be spoken. In fact, they are absolutely necessary when it comes to the Assembly. They have gotten a pass for the last 3 decades.

Brent

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: November 14, 2002 11:13AM

Hi Joe, Terry, Brent, and Others:
Joe, please stay and make your contribution. I don't know if you have checked out the new website under testimonials, but several of your posts have made it onto the site. I shared the business about Al as an encouragement to you and others that even the abuser can change and make his way out of the Assembly. (of course you may have been joking about joining the lurkers). Al would not be reading this site.
Terry, I think we are close in our thinking re. how God communicates with us. I agree that just having a good understanding of doctrine is not getting the full message from God or the most out of our life with God. I also hope others understand (especially those instructed by GG) the difference between how George views God's communication with us vs an orthodox view. Doctrine is vital because it says that there is truth and that this truth is absolute. Doctrine also tells us there is error. Truth leads to everlasting life and error to everlasting death. Having said that, how that truth or error works out in the life is an amazing and rather complicated reality; God does work his revelation of truth in truly mysterious ways.
I think the reason God has given "the truth of the gospel" as the authority for our faith is to protect us from those who, like GG, would usurp that authority by claiming a direct connection with God via special revelation. The Word of God actually protects the individual Christian's privlege to communion from the would be Judeaizers and etc. of our day (those who would spy out our liberty in Christ and attempt to take it away). I find in my own life that the fact of my security before God leads me into blessed experiences of hope, peace, and joy--- these are all subjective experiences and are fruits of the Holy Spirit, but to not know the truth of the gospel first would be to miss out on the experience of communion. There is nothing worse than just hearing some "expert" tell you what the Christian life is by a simple three point message (3 points-sound familiar;).
God has placed eternity in our hearts and there is a true depth to spirituality, but it is only a safe experience when traversed on the clear teaching of scripture re. who God is and his salvation. I know you know all this, but this is for the benefit of those who do not understand our conversation on this matter.
Brent, I would certainly use the bulletin board on the new site and would urge the others here to give a look and please give their input. God Bless, Mark

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