George Geftakys
Posted by: Eric Buchmann ()
Date: November 10, 2002 05:39PM

Hi Everybody,

<< When an outreach is a total bomb, as most are, and everyone has done a ton of leg work (not the leaders, just the "saints") then they say: "We had a great time! The gospel went out clearly."

When an outreach results in some "contacts" they say this: "Pray for so and so and so. The Lord really spoke to them. Pray they would be delivered from Catholicism/immoral relationship/etc. Really saints, the Lord gave us a singular time, many people's hearts were touched. Pray that the enemy would not snatch away the many seeds that were planted."… “and the other Assemblies hear stories about how "revival" is occurring in San Luis Obispo, and they get the impression that God is working mightily on the farmers market outreach, etc.” >>

Now Brother, can we talk? The leadership works hard at what we do (like nothing!). And God was there at that outreach on Wednesday night. But I am a little disturbed by your attitude concerning the Lord’s work. You’ve been coming across as being sarcastic and brother that’s [u:8553d672b5]not[/u:8553d672b5] what the Lord wants. It also bothers me about how you’ve been reporting the outreaches to others. The Lord is doing a great work here! But to report this as happening in San Luis Obispo, when in fact it happened in the Valley, is a misrepresentation. In fact, those were Diotrophes exact words at the prayer meeting on Thursday night. Is this where you get your thinking that the assemblies are not autonomous. Brother, none of us report to Brother George. I think you need to repent about your attitude. Why don’t we pray about your attitude? Brother, you need to trust the Lord! How are your morning times? When’s the last time you said the Selfer’s Prayer? O.K., well trust the Lord, pray the selfer’s prayer 3 times, and praise the Lord, Brother.

Sound familiar?

Along the same lines, I’ve been noticing more of how the assembly works. I’ve spoken to 6 or 7 members recently. They all shared the same verses and said the same thing to me. Some said they got their word from the Lord. [u:8553d672b5]Now for the analysis[/u:8553d672b5]: In the assembly this was proof that God was speaking to us. It didn’t matter if a husband and wife said it because the husband could not have directed his wife to act as an agent for God. But I also know from experience that on many occasions I was to entreat someone on a particular issue in my own words and to present it as coming from me on my own initiative. The problem with this, is that in the assembly, we were not encouraged to think for ourselves. Thus everyone said the same thing, and the individual was “deeply convicted” that it was from the Lord. I was encouraged to say certain things to the brethren (in my own words), who were involved in the campus ministry as well as to the sisters who were in my home. The results were often predictable; ‘you are the third person to talk to me about this (the first being the one who approached me, and the second was usually his wife), this must be the Lord’s will.’
Many times I believed that I somehow was the catalyst that God used. This happens [u:8553d672b5]all[/u:8553d672b5] the time and is denied most of the time. Sometimes, an individual will pick up on a ‘hint’ and without thinking (as is the norm), will truly believe that they came up with it.

When I first left the Valley, I thought there couldn’t be a worse assembly than S.L.O. or the Valley. They are a lot alike on the abusive scale, specifically verbal abuse of members (my experience and others I’ve talked to). Now I’m finding out how much more the entire ministry is corrupt. Also, speaking with assembly members is like talking to a wall. They don’t listen! The most common response I literally hear is: “I don’t want to know the truth.” I get a better response from a J.W.!

Regarding Seattle, David, yes I remember that outreach. When the prayer letter came out, I was shocked and unsure of how to respond. I thought that Fullerton must have misunderstood what happened. The problem is the prayer letter was [u:8553d672b5]so[/u:8553d672b5] far off. I remember telling my wife, “this is not what happened.”

Your question reminds me of an event that occurs often in the valley assembly. When itinerant brethren come, they will usually send greetings from the assembly they came from and sometimes mention they’ve been praying for us. The greetings are exchanged and then Diotrophes has to get a word in. It goes something like this: “Brother, we have been praying for you (the assembly you’re in).” Rarely in 10 years was this ever the truth. Recently Mr. Tucker came from the Midwest, after visiting Fullerton, and the same proclamation was made. The problem was, we hadn’t prayed for the Midwest for years. It really bothered me and yet to approach this brother would have resulted in a verbal lashing. To approach another brother would have resulted in an accusation of causing division.

The assembly in doctrine holds to the scriptural practice of approaching a brother first, then bringing another, etc.
In reality the assembly holds to the practice of unquestioned totalitarian rule. Any questioning or criticism is silenced, if not verbally then by total avoidance by the members (effectively excommunication).

There is much more to tell; of visitors being followed through out a week by one of the leader’s wives, of an attempt to have a vocal sister placed into a mental institution, of accusations by leadership that a particular individual attempted immorality with someone else (when in fact the accused was seeing their parents ~120 miles away), of attempts to set up an individual for failure in order to “put them in their proper place in the assembly.” This is all based on first person testimony, some by the leader’s themselves.


George Geftakys
Posted by: terry huffman ()
Date: November 10, 2002 10:52PM

I am appreciating the insights gotten from the regular contributors (Mark, Brent, Joe, David), and now from Eric, too. It helps fill in the blanks for me, and more importantly, it is helping those folks out there who prefer for the moment to remain anonymous. Since the format here does allow for anonymity, I am asking those who have insight- but prefer to remain so- to please share their observations, experiences, and questions. You might be the person who articulates an important or relevant- but till now unaddressed- perspective. In short, you might help yourself AND someone else with your input.


George Geftakys
Posted by: Greg Tobin ()
Date: November 10, 2002 11:14PM

At 16 I was saved from the Catholic Church; at 45, after 20 years, I was delivered from bondage (The Assembly). Here are some similarities to consider:

[u:8a0a9030c4]Catholicism[/u:8a0a9030c4] / [u:8a0a9030c4]The Assembly[/u:8a0a9030c4]

1) The Pope / Guess who?

2) The Priests Interpretation / The ministry

3) Confession

George Geftakys
Posted by: Greg Tobin ()
Date: November 10, 2002 11:28PM

I was saved at 16 from the Catholic Church; at 45, after 20 years, I was delivered from bondage (The Assembly). Here are some similarities to consider:

Catholicism The Assembly

1) The Pope / Guess who?

2) The Priests’ Interpretation / The ministry

3) Confession / Meeting with leading brothers

4) Rules that change / Standards that change
(no meat on Friday)

5) Communion / Lord’s Supper
(transubstantiation) (used to control)

6) Genuflecting / Call GG by title (brother)

7) “Hail Mary” / “Selfer’s Prayer”

8) “Our Father” / “Heavenly Ladder”

9) Sacraments / Inheritance

10) Getting Saved / Leaving The Assembly
(John 3:16) (Acts 5:29)

Three Differences

1. Leading brothers do not wear coneheads.

2. The Assembly is not into candles (publicly).

3. Assembly members do not genuflect (see point #6).

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: November 11, 2002 01:22AM

Hi Greg and others,
It was great to see your post! Very interesting analogy re. the Assembly and the Catholic Church. I busted up laughing thinking of Assembly leaders wearing "coneheads".
Brent, the site is coming along nicely and provides much good info. for anyone who needs it re. the Assembly. I would encourage all interested parties to visit it and check it out.
In reading the articles on the site I have discovered how much of my old Assembly upbringing is still a part of my psyche. Now, I know clearly in my thinking what is correct re. the teaching of salvation and the Christian life but my emotional life always seems to stray in the direction of, "deeper life/ mysticism teaching". I naturally favor the direction that looks deep within myself for my reality. I was a hippie before they even existed, having read Walden Pond at 12 years old. I was enamoured of the escapist/ transcendental/mystic concepts. When the hippie thing was born it was natural to follow it and with that movement fell into the Eastern philosophy part of that movement.
When I was saved I wanted to join a Christian group that was "deep" in their spirituality and what this meant was a group that understood reality from a "non-intellectual" means. This is the way I understood to correctly pursue "spiritual" things. I was a perfect fit for George's "deeper" truths and why I could produce with great ease a chapter summary that would win George's instant commendation as, "good meditation brother!"
I may, like Jacob become Israel, have to limp on the inujured leg of my natural tendency but my mind gets clearer every day that "deeper life" truth leads me deep within myself and not to God (did you catch the "deep" scriptural analogy above? :D )
God Bless, Mark

George Geftakys
Posted by: terry huffman ()
Date: November 11, 2002 01:38PM

Greetings Mark + everyone else:

It was a great point how "mystics" were shanghaied by GG to serve "corporate" ends. While in the assembly I read a lot of A.W. Tozer, and then purchased the authors he (Tozer) mentioned or quoted from. For me they (the mystics) were a saving grace, as I realized they had a depth of communion with God and it didn't involve a frenzied schedule or 300+ meetings a year. I knew that "fellowshipping the mystery" just had to be more than what we were experiencing in the assembly. Their writings led me away from putting so much stock in the "corporate testimony," and probably helped me not to completely-that is, permanently- lose faith when I started to crack in the old assembly days. Their focus was the personal, not the corporate. It greatly helped. I wd. be interested your thoughts concerning....

George Geftakys
Posted by: Mark Campbell ()
Date: November 12, 2002 07:52AM

Hi Terry and Others,
Does my subject title remind you of anything? Terry, if your study of "Mystics" helped you find a individual life with God I can't complain about it. Maybe certain personality types wouldn't relate to mystical teaching like mine did, which was damaging to my soul. I think there are "Mystics" like Tozer and then there are "Mystics" like George and the latter being the more dangerous. Of course I realize many just sat in the meetings and let this stuff fly over their heads while they shouted, "Praise the Lord", to give the idea they knew what George was saying. I really tried to get this stuff he was teaching down and in my own devotions read the Bible in the same manner. This leads to a manic depressive spirituality that is in the high places one moment, and in the depths the next (Incidentally, I believe George suffers from the above disorder).
For me, I must have a clear understanding of what the Bible teaches first and then allow my emotions to follow. True mysticism understands revelation of divine truth as an inner light that gives definition to the written or spoken word. A example would be George's teaching of Eph:3: where he actually changes the spelling of the word, "breadth" to breath and then goes on to teach that the passage is talking about the wind of the Holy Spirit. From this point he starts talking about the 4th dimension of the Holy Spirit where believers enter to receive true revelation. This teaching is "breathless" in it's departure from the text and makes the actual words in the text meaningless as they can be changed to suit the "interpreter's" needs. I used to love this stuff, but it's pure bunk! God bless, Mark

George Geftakys
Posted by: ex-Geftakys ()
Date: November 12, 2002 09:48AM

Hello everyone

I wrote a book called Navigating the Deeper Life, which is all about mysticism and how it effected me. (I am not trying to plug the book, but you can get it for free on the webiste, [])

My problem with mystics is that they are so unlike Jesus. They aren't even like Paul or Peter. It seems that they talk and talk, but never seem to accomplish anything.

The opposite of a mystic, like Penn-Lewis, is a missionary, like Hudson Taylor, or an evangelist, like Billy Graham. They know the cross in their lives, but they spend less time talking and teaching seminars, and more time edifying the Body of Christ. I would rather spend 10 minutes with a college student who just got back from a month in China, than 2 hours with someone who is going to explain "the heavenly nature of the church." For me, I learn much more about Jesus and His love from the simple folk than from the deep ones. I think that this is something of what Jesus meant when He spoke of child-like fatih.


George Geftakys
Posted by: Greg Tobin ()
Date: November 12, 2002 10:40AM

Mark, Greetings. That is incredible about George’s “liberty” in interpreting Ephesians. I’m sure the examples are endless. I remember him interpreting the “ear” of corn in MK 4:28 meaning that we should listen. The Greek word (4719) has nothing to do with the human ear. I know that seems harmless but it does cause confusion.

George Geftakys
Posted by: david mauldin ()
Date: November 13, 2002 03:39AM

Hi Just wanted to let you know Terry that there is a missionary at Ave 54 Bible Chaple in Highland Park CA., Ciprian Kia, who has spent his whole life working in Nigeria, Today he is there about 8 months of the year. He has a lot to say about George. Quote "There are not 30 assemblies" More like 3-4. (Unless you count contacts who lives out in the bush.) Also George has caused him a lot of grief. Accusing him of "Stealing Sheep" and coordinating seminars that conflicted with Georges visits (Funny this guys been going to Nigeria a lot longer than George.) It was through this man that I was put in touch with Obeadun Falaky. He was a brother who George maligned one night at the prayer mtg. "He's a very week brother..." This is far from the truth.
I would love to really know what has happened in Africa.

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